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Emperor Perikles of Greece

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Harv, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    The Quest for Bronze!
    to Turn 32

    It's just a few more turns.

    Turn 31 - Gold mine complete
    Turn 32 - Bronze Working

    Whatever Nappy is up to, it's no good.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-3-26_21-39-12.png



    Here is our source of copper.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-3-26_21-37-45.png


    I really thought it was going to materialize in the frozen north. I think that plains hill site at -5,2 is best right now. It gets the copper and the corn and the sheep.

    We need the Wheel next, then Animal Husbandry. If I settle at -4,-1, then we don't need AH right away. That site would get corn, copper, gold and the oasis.

    Athens will need another worker right after the settler is built, maybe two. The worker we have now will be very busy developing Sparta.
     

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  2. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    The Founding of Sparta
    to Turn 39

    Turn 36 - Settler in Thebes - It was the best we could do.
    Turn 37 - We finally invented the Wheel. We also switched to Slavery.
    Turn 39 - Sparta founded.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-3-28_11-41-34.png


    If I micro Sparta, then I can have a warrior in four turns. However, having a spearman is not terrible. The other difference is having AH on Turn 45 or Turn 46. I'm leaning towards just build the spearman.

    Added:
    to Turn 45

    This is what the situation looks like at Turn 45. The Warrior being built in Sparta became a Spearman, so it's 20 extra hammers when we could have had a warrior and be half way towards a phalanx.

    The spearman is sometimes described as the reason the Greek UU is a waste. Right now, I don't think so. The chariot is the counter to the axeman and against the phalanx in open ground, the chariot only has a 25% chance against it. Still, a spear in the group would be good.

    In Athens: Are we better off building warrior or settler? I think the other site in the desert is still okay.

    Napoleon: Should we try a phalanx rush or will we have enough room in the south to expand?
     

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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  3. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Spear could yet be useful. Nappy has horse and is a warmonger.

    Only build road to second city if your planning an axe rush. Otherwise you should be chopping a settler.
    1E of corn or that desert hill.

    Do we like Nappy 2nd city? I might of shared over 2 cities.

    So rex or go war mode? I usually don't build a 3rd worker unless I plan to chop an army. 10-11 axes. Your UU is pretty good against chariots. Albeit spears will take them down easier. Capital first.
     
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  4. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    We didn't know if Nappy had horse or not at Turn 39, but it might have been a good assumption to work with. So spear was a decent choice.

    Then it looks like almost everything I did up to Turn 45 is leading up to a phalanx rush. We scouted as much around Paris as we could. There are five tiles we cannot see. We built the third worker, which is what you said you would do if you were planning to chop a bunch of phalanxes. We also got a single spear in the mix. Each city has a bare minimum warrior defender. We are also roading to Sparta.

    Regarding rex, there is the site you mentioned that is probably better than where I was thinking. There is one more by a wheat to the south. And that's it! I cannot think of any more decent sites.

    I will get a few more turns in and finish the road.

    Added:
    to Turn 48

    The road is finished to Sparta. We linked the copper and the gold.

    Now I have a question about the workers. How many workers should be developing the food sources near Sparta and how many should be chopping phalanxes? I am going to give that thought.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
  5. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    to Turn 59

    I stopped here because I just got to Writing and have no idea what to research next. I signed OB with Nappy to get a look at Paris. It is on a hill and defended with Guerrilla Archers. Most likely when we attack, there will be three of them.

    So far, we only have one barracks and three phalanxes. :p

    Turn 50 - Sparta size 2, working corn and copper
    Turn 51 - Pottery
    Turn 52 - Started Barracks in Athens and Sparta
    I thought about building rookie phalanxes in Sparta and whipping the Barracks. Maybe that was the better idea.
    Turn 54 - Athens Size 4. Barracks in Athens
    Turn 55 - Phalanx 1 in Athens. Sparta size 3
    Turn 56 - Somebody built Stonehenge.
    Turn 57 - Phalanx 2 in Athens
    Turn 58 - Phalanx 3 in Athens
    Turn 59 - Writing. Sparta size 2. Signed open borders with Napoleon to check out Paris.

    Spoiler :

    Nappy has three cities now and with OB, we have a pretty good idea where to find Lyons.
    upload_2020-3-28_19-23-49.png

    Of course, BUG Mod would have told us exactly when Lyons was founded, because it checks all that stuff, without having to call up all the world leaders to discuss the weather.

    Here is what our empire looks like so far.
    upload_2020-3-28_19-25-4.png




    I think, since these cities are only good to Size 3 and we have a happy cap of 5 or 6, then one-pop whips are in order. I checked again and could not do it sooner because of overflow limits. This turn looks perfect for Athens. A couple turns later should work for Sparta. That should get some troops rolling in a little bit more quickly.
     

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  6. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Fall of Paris
    to Turn 75

    Turn 60 - Phalanx 4 in Athens. Barracks in Sparta.
    Turn 61 - Phalanx 5 in Athens. Phalanx 7 in Sparta.
    Turn 63 - Phalanx 7 in Athens. Phalanx 8 in Sparta.
    Turn 64 - Phalanx 9 in Sparta.
    Turn 65 - Phalanx 10 in Sparta.
    Turn 66 - Phalanx 11 in Athens.
    Turn 68 - Phalanx 12 in Athens.
    Turn 69 - Phalanx 13 in Athens.

    Turn 70 - Declared war on France and invaded. Then I went builder mode. We will see if that was an opportunity or a mistake.
    Turn 71 - Granary in Athens.
    Battle of Paris - Captured Paris, losing 3 Phalanxes. This seemed to be a very good result for 3 defenders.

    Turn 73 - Somebody built the Great Wall.

    Turn 75 - Battle of Lyons. Captured Lyons, losing 1 Phalanx. This was another good result.

    Spoiler :

    There was this barbarian incursion to deal with.
    upload_2020-3-29_8-9-22.png

    I think there is a number of turns where the barbarians do not invade player territory and when it expired, there were a bunch of them.

    The Battle of Paris. Odds are not good, but we only have to score a single wound and it helps, which we did.
    upload_2020-3-29_8-10-29.png

    upload_2020-3-29_8-11-23.png

    Hindsight says I would have been better to sit on the corn because of the road. In the end, it did not matter.

    Here was the Battle of Lyons, where the French built their first chariot.
    upload_2020-3-29_8-12-4.png

    upload_2020-3-29_8-12-18.png


    Orleans is next and it has city walls and a lot of population.

    Lyons - Is it worth keeping or should I just burn it?
     

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  7. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Hmmm not ideal that the 2 Ai cities separate yours. I think you stopped producing units too soon.

    Rheims is likely settled on iron. Firstly as 2f2H under city. Secondly there are zero other resources that we can see near the site. Which means axes if he connects the 2 cities with roads.

    Ceasefire could reset the Ai here. No idea where Mongols are but you will be getting barbs from south coming up soon.

    Maybe after Paris you should of gone for the flood plains city.

    Your building a lot of road here which is never a good sign.

    You can use forest near Paris to chop more units. That or gather all phalanx and attack his walled city. To take it safely 2-3 more units would be ideal. Hopefully he is fighting off barbs too.

    Long term where is your economy coming from? Cottage Paris?

    Would alphabet help economy wise? Helps push science?
     
  8. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    It might be fixable. I got one win at Turn 88 or Turn 89 and the economy is almost completely crashed.

    Would Alphabet have been a better choice than Mathematics? It might be the case, because after we defeat the French, we can build more units which cost us more money, but Alphabet has an option to build research instead.
     
  9. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    The Fall of Paris, Take 2
    to Turn 70

    I went back to the Turn 59 save and changed the research to Alphabet. I also positioned the phalanxes better and declared war as soon as the settler steal was available, which was 4 turns sooner than the previous go.

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-3-29_18-24-22.png


    Is this a better result?

    Was I better off continuing to build phalanxes instead of the sudden switch to granaries?

    Was the pasturing of the pig iron timely?

    Added, bonuses from this round:
    Only two phalanxes lost at Paris, instead of 3, one to each archer. We ran out of troops at the end, so some luck was involved, but more troops were incoming. I thought if I waited one more turn, then Napoleon would have had another archer to defend.
    The city on the iron never happened.

    Also, attacking Orleans is the next move?
     

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  10. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    In other news, I made a mess trying to install BUG. Any experts here at fixing BTS?

    Added:

    I might have success!

    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-3-29_19-57-20.png


    I did two reinstalls and it kept crashing, but I could run the other mods. Then I tried installing again. We might be back in business!
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  11. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Spoiler :

    The fall of Orleans
    upload_2020-3-29_20-21-47.png

    ...and Lyons
    upload_2020-3-29_20-36-39.png



    This is a little cleaner, but lost focus on workers and the barbarians to the south were quite a few.
     

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  12. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Yep 800bc and all done with French. Does mean tech trade wise it's unlikely to happen with mongols.

    That warrior north of Sparta is doing no good where it is. Your culture already fogbusts this area. Move him 2S1W of the Marble? Or back to a city and use spear to fog bust? You might want another unit north of the Silver and this covers most of the Northern area.

    Then you need 3-4 Phalanx for the southern part of your empire. Barb axes/spears will appear so stick units on forest and get shock promos. Save promos till they are in danger.

    You need cottages around the flood plain Orleans. Working that gold will slow growth. Focus on cottages first with workers.

    Probably Paris too. Not sure about chopping that hill. Focus on grassland river tiles with cottages and chopping. Maybe whip a worker at size 4? That or chop a second too?

    Capital is ideal size to whip a settler. You need more cities here. Mongols will rex heavily here and eventually attack you. They can attack at pleased. You would need to get them to friendly. So gift health or spare happiness resources and open borders. You have no religion to share. Taoism long term.

    First GS for academy but capital is not great for that. The flood plain city will have much better commerce. Bulbing maths is not ideal unless you plan a construction war here. Right now Mongols too far away.

    Any reason for Sparta not to be running the corn? At size 6 i would likely whip another settler.

    I think you will want 2-3 more workers here. Plus 2-3+ more cities. Your +5 gold at 0% science.

    Cities? Corn/gold? Pigs/gold coastal desert.

    Then consider a cities further afield. Maybe even a city north of Orleans to share iron and 2 flood plains.
     
  13. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Okay, most of the advice is dealing with the future, which is a good sign. :)

    I will go through it and see how quickly the economy gets better.

    With GK, the question might be who got the bigger chunk of land.

    Added - I forgot to ask. Currency next, or do I need something from Sailing and Masonry? Or should I be considering a completely different route?
     
  14. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    Sailing - Would help with trade routes. +1 commerce from city. So 5gpt at 100% tax.

    Masonry - What wonder were you planning on building?

    Currency - Helps with the economy. +1 trade route per city.

    You should be building a workboat at some point or you will not get foreign trade routes here.
     
  15. gavenkoa

    gavenkoa Warlord

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    Please explain conclusion.

    Why is a workboat necessary for foreign trade route?
     
  16. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

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    You need sailing and to have discovered the ai city. I don't think meeting the ai is enough. However a barb city if found would block trade routes.
     
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  17. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    Traderoutes can be established only through scouted coast tiles. I think ocean within culture works too, not quite sure though.
     
  18. nebux

    nebux Chieftain

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    yes they do if the tile next to ocean tiles in your borders are coast. rule of thumb if a galley can travel the trade routes do so, off course you need to be aware of barb city and barb galleys doing blocking trade routes
     
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  19. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    Many times if AI sends workboat (they love them for scouting), they get connection towards player trade network (can trade resources for example) but when sign Open Borders, can find out that nothing changed with trade routes - that would mean that there is only one side scouted clear path towards other civilization. Similar thing happens if one civilization has access over Ocean tile towards another landmass (where different Civilization is located) but other side don't have - in that case both civilizations can exchange resources but only 1st will get trade routes towards other civilization.
     
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  20. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    General question: Was I better off leaving Nappy with a single city to trade tech with GK?

    It looks like I destroyed Nappy in the same turn as we discovered the Alphabet.

    Turn 59 to 83, 24 turns, quite a lot.
    Turn 66 to 73, 17 turns.
    So I showed 7 turns of buildup and 17 turns of war and very little detail. No wonder I lost focus on things like worker and warrior fogbust! :lol:

    Sailing - worth 5 commerce as soon as we discover routes to Mongol cities.

    Currency - worth 5 commerce, plus another 7 with sailing?

    Masonry - no plan to build wonders with marble and no shot at GLH. Maybe the great library.

    Corn - I turned off the corn to keep the happiness under control. Should I reconsider that reasoning? We can build more workers and work the corn anyway.

    Great scientist- Orleans academy ok.

    Tech path - optics out to discover the other continent or do we have issues with GK?
     

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