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Emperor Run with Charlemagne

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Harv, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

    Aug 6, 2003
    One step ahead of the authorities
    I'm thinking settle 3-4 cities in this order:
    1 - copper (production)

    2 - 1SE of gold (cottage that river tile and grasslands-you'll need to start these cottages asap to pay for units/recover after the war)
    It's close between this location and the one Harv chose. Seeing what's further north might decide between the two. But the advantage of this spot is not for cottages; it's for the PH

    3 - 1N of corn (production)
    4 - 1N of pigs (production)
    Agreed on the city locations but I would take down Joao first.

    I'd probably skip Fishing and do Wheel -> Pottery -> Archery -> Writing -> Alphabet. I like to build cheaper archers to leave for defense while my axes move on to next city. If you can swing Alphabet before you end of the war you can probably get a couple of techs for peace, but also, since your economy will crash hard, you'll probably need to build research in your production cities to get back on track (currency).
    You don't need defence in an early rush. Archery is pointless. Skipping fishing is reasonable but, as there is no rush to Pots and you'll eventually need Fishing, you might as well get the discount.

    Also, cottage river tiles at capital early, you'll need them. City 1N of corn can help work them.
    There's a distinct lack of happiness on this map so there's no rush for cottages. Eventually, yes. For the moment, those mines need to get up and those forests need to be chopped.
  2. diegovelasco45

    diegovelasco45 Casual civ4 emperor lvl

    Apr 6, 2010
    If you go for the axe rush, then skip fishing or anything else you have in mind. However I would not advice to axe rush based on the information you have until now.

    For example, if you have as neighbor Shaka and he is friendly with Joao for whatever reason, he might become angry at you (and that will haunt you for the rest of the game).

    If you are stuck on an island, Joao might be the only source of technology in the early game, granted that you can keep him from expanding too much (choke him).
    EDIT: I realize it's a continents map, but it could still happen.

    He might have settled on copper or iron and the war will stretch until the ADs.

    I would rather explore a little more (probably during the hooking of the cooper) and then decide the rush.
  3. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Feb 2, 2002
    Czech Rep.
    I shadowed it a bit.

    got 6 cities with GLH, first 4 was capital in place, pigs to block a bit joao, corn to west as backfill, pigs+copper, sheep+gold, last was over the ocean.

    abandoned it around 300 BC because thinking that "300 BC axe rush would be ok since Joao is so small" was pretty dumb.

    I was very near to Mids at the point.

    I don't think you really need to rush Joao and
    Spoiler :
    I think you shouldn't due to number of AI's on continent
  4. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    I played up to 1800BC or Turn 55.

    Turn 33 - Since researching Bronze Working revealed the Copper to the North, I no longer need the Warrior in the South for fogbusting and he is moving towards Portugese territory to scout. I fortified the Scout and the Worker started to chop the Forest. I switching research to The Wheel.

    Turn 35 - Settler in Aachen - Start Worker.
    The Forest is chopped.
    This is the best turn I can think of to revolt into Slavery.

    Turn 36 - Out of Revolt and into Slavery.
    The Worker starts the Mine.

    Turn 37 - Founded Prague at (0,4) and started a Monument. The border pop will put the Plains Hill into range.
    My Warrior discovered Oporto.
    In Aachen whipped the Worker.
    Spoiler :

    Turn 38 - Worker in Aachen - Start Warrior

    Turn 39 - Warrior in Aachen - Start Warrior
    The Warrior fortified in Aachen to keep order.
    Joao has adopted Slavery.

    Turn 41 - Warrior in Aachen - Start Worker

    Turn 44 - The Wheel - Start research on Animal Husbandry
    Worker in Aachen - Start Barracks

    Turn 45 - A Barbarian Archer destroys my scout

    Turn 47 - Barracks in Aachen - Start Axeman

    Turn 48- Monument in Prague - Start Barracks

    Turn 50 - Axeman in Prague - Start Settler
    Somebody founded Judaism

    Turn 53- Encountered Isabella of Spain. She is apparently Joao's other neighbor.
    Spoiler :

    Turn 55 - Animal Husbandry - Start reserach on Fishing

    So here is my situation at 1800BC or Turn 55:
    Spoiler :

    Joao is about seven or eight turns ahead of me founding cities but I think my sites are better. ;)

    This seems to be a good junction point because I have just finished researching Animal Husbandry and have set up my Settler either to build on the Plains Hill next to the Gold - or move 2 squares to the north and found a city on the Coast. The former favors the axe rush because of all the extra production that can be set up pretty quickly. The latter favors a coastal strategy.

    Also settling 2 north gets me the Horses. The tile itself is equivalent to a riverside grass mine but access to Horses opens up more strategies.

    The Axemongers seem to be in the majority in this thread but I have only built 2 Barracks and 1 Axeman and two more on the way. I can still change my mind about it.

    I have built 1 Axeman and 2 Barracks. This is still setting up for the Axe Attack but it is not too late to change my mind about that. Here is what I am thinking:

    1. I can found my third city (Vienna) right on the Plains Hills where the Settler currently is.
    2. Two of my Workers can get the Pig Pasture up and running next turn. The other Worker can start on the Gold Mine.
    3. I still need another Worker but I have a few options on where and when to build it.
    4. Research is Fishing - Pottery - Writing - Sailing - Masonry?
    5. Joao is basically expanding into my face so I think he is very limited in expanding in the other direction.
    6. I am not sure how Isabella managed to get a Work Boat into my sight.
    7. I have one more good city site on the mainland and the Island might have one or two sites.

    The last time I tried to pull off an Axe Rush it was in a Qin Game against Shaka and it was brutally ugly. I might have overbuilt my infrastructure but I think I have about 10 or 15 turns to build as many Axes as I can.

    Attached Files:

  5. Oggums

    Oggums King

    Feb 18, 2004
    Yuck, his visible cities near you are both on hills.
  6. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    ^^It is nothing a bunch of Axes cannot fix. It just increases the number of Axes that you will lose taking it down. Of course an incredible roll of boxcars can help! ;)

    Here is what the Axe Rush looks like:

    Turn 55 - Founded Vienna
    Spoiler :

    I built Barracks and Axes. Turn 70 I started the war.

    Spoiler :

    Here is the initial invasion with 10 Axes:

    I rolled incredibly here only losing 1 Axe. If I compare this to rolling 3 dice and getting 2 Sixes the odds are 15/216 I believe. The loss was an easy cleanup.

    Turn 74 - Destroyed Coimbra which was guarded by a Chariot but was just founded and did not have an Archer Defender yet.

    Turn 76 - Lisbon was completely taken by surprise. He did manage to get a couple of Archers and a couple of Chariots in. The attack gave me Michiel de Ruyer as a Great General.

    This is the beginning of the end.

    Turn 77 - I settled my Great General in Vienna thinking that might be my production site down the road.

    Turn 78 - Captured Oporto and burned it to the ground. It is expensive to keep and I can gambit and settle on the coast later.

    Turn 83 - Captured Evora and burned it.

    Research was:
    Turn 61 - Fishing
    Turn 69 - Pottery
    Turn 77 - Sailing
    Turn 80 - Masonry
    Currently researching Writing and will then go either Alphabet or Mathematics on the way to Currency.

    The Portugese are gone but the only prize I took was Lisbon. Settlers are cheap and I will play a gambit pretending I can get the Great Lighthouse. I have lots of Axes for barb busting or hunting. The move did block off a good chunk of land.

    The Great Wall went in Turn 56.
    Stonehenge went in Turn 63.

    Here is a map of the situation:
    Spoiler :

    Normally I have a bias against Axe Rushes. I could always play an Alternate Universe from Turnset 0 where I pursue expansion instead of rushing.

    ADDIT: I should be able to play Friday and Saturday. My week tends to be fairly occupied. I think it is a matter of getting to Alphabet / Currency / Code of Laws and then expand like crazy. I can get into an Infinite City Sprawl situation especially if I snag the Colossus.

    Question: Would there be interest in the Alternate Universe I described just a few lines above?

    Attached Files:

  7. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

    Oct 15, 2003
    I don't think I would've razed Oporto given how it had 2 foods and was size 5 to begin with but I understand the maintenance cost issue.

    At any rate, you now have 3 sources of gold which will keep you up to speed. Is Isabella on the same continent - that is to ask have you seen any Spanish units or has it been just ships? The way that continent is curving at the bottom would suggest that it's just a C-shaped landmass. That takes away from the GLH a little but obviously doesn't remove it's usefulness.
  8. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    I played slowly and cautiously up to 225BC and got to Currency.

    Turn 84 - Writing
    Turn 98 - Alphabet (Needed to build Research)
    Turn 106 - Currency

    My Rivals:
    Turn 93 - Isabella has completed the Oracle and I believe has researched Monarchy becuse...
    Turn 94 - She adopted Heridetary Rule and Slavery
    Turn 96 - Somebody built the Pyramids

    My economy was in pretty rough shape after taking out the Portugese. I built up Lisbon and saved my expansion for when I could afford it.

    Spoiler :

    Turn 96 - Built the Great Lighthouse in Aachen

    Also founded Nuremberg

    Turn 101 - Founded Augsburg

    Turn 104 - Founded Mainz

    Turn 106 - Founded Ulm

    I might have done all this all backwards but I wanted to get an economy working before expanding into bankruptcy. Now that I have Currency and the Great Lighthouse I can expand.

    Lisbon can build Settlers - It is closest to the action.
    Vienna can build Units - It has the settled Great General.
    Aachen can build a Settler sometime soon and claim a city across the channel.
    Prague can build Workers? I am going to need some soon.
    The other cities are building up their infrastructure.

    Then I can expand down the two peninsula until I run into eiher the Jungle or Isabella. Eventually I should be able to claim Silk, Sugar, and Spice as Calendar Resources.

    For Research, I am planning:
    Code of Laws for one of the best unique buildings in the game
    Calendar for those Resources
    Iron Working for clearing the Jungle
    Metal Casting for the Colossus?

    I might mess with the order above for a bit.

    One of the consequences of taking out Joao is I lost one trading partner and I no longer have much tech trading available. It is looking like I will have to self tech everything.

    Going for Optics to find the other Continent is always an option or I might go for the siege technology I need to take Isabella out and have my Continent to myself. This will depend on how big Isabella gets and what tech she researches.

    I still need to scout the southern part of the Continent to see how much territory Isabella has. There is sure a lot of Jungle out there and that should keep her busy for a good while. Those two long peninsula will sure provide some good choke points.

    Attached Files:

  9. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Feb 2, 2002
    Czech Rep.
    I think it wasn't good that you took out portuguese. Have you already shared religion with Izzy? if not do it asap. She has pretty high shared religion bonus (I think I saw up to +8?), you need to make her friendly asap!

    Next tech CoL for sure. Imo you should stop after you get it, so we can give better advice then.

    Can't check the save, so just generous feelings about the game (based on running for awhile shadow).
  10. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

    Oct 15, 2003
    Not good? Grabbing a second capital and one with dual golds at that is never a bad play. Furthermore, he would've been stuck with 3 cities in the immediate capital vicinity and would have been forced to settle across the channel - a bad play in the sense that he wouldn't gain intercontinentaltrade routes and would still have an empire split in two. As if those two points were not enough, Joao is a huge douche and given how much land is left between Portugal and Madrid, Joao would have been a 10+ city empire easily and would have been increasingly hard to take on with 3-5 cities.

    Rathauses recover any economy and are just all around amazing - in my book the best UB there is. Later on you can run corporations like a boss since the costs will be reduced even further thanks to the Rathaus. Just get those whipped all around and focus on grabbing whatever land is left since the costs will no longer be an issue when you have access to the UB and from thereon you can focus on whatever goal suits you, most likely gaining contact with the other landmass(es).
  11. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008
    LOL check her land/pop %. There's no playing nice with izzy here. This map is winnable but a large part of that is because it's on emperor. Left alone Spain is gonna run away.

    Spawns like this are some of the more ludicrously terrible in the game. If this were a MP game HRE was handed a t0 loss.
  12. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    As requested I played just a few turns to get to Code of Laws. I would have done this last night but cut my round short because it was just getting late. The game is up to Turn 117, or 50AD. Code of Laws has just been researched.

    Confucianism has been founded in Prague and spread to Vienna.

    I founded two more cities, Florence (Tur 110) and Pisa. (Turn 114)
    Spoiler :

    I got a Great Scientist in Aachen on Turn 111 and decided simply to use him to build an Academy in Aachen.

    The Hindus on the other continent built their Shrine on Turn 112. The Temple of Artemis was built on Turn 115.

    Here are some maps of my situation at 50AD.
    Spoiler :

    This is my empire - It is 10 Cities and has some room for expansion.

    This is the Spanish Empire. Much of it is dark but I should have it scouted shortly.

    This is the Neutral Zone.

    Isabella is a Religious Player so will be using the Open Borders Treats to spam Buddhist Missionaries. With Imperialistic and Great Lighthouse and Great Rathauses I may gain an edge in expansion.

    For Tech, I am leaning towards this:
    1. Iron Working - Clear Jungle / Plant Cottage - and Izzy has it so it goes faster
    2. Mathematics
    3. Calendar - 3 Resources
    4. Construction - Build Catapults

    If I had less Jungle and more Tundra then I could go for Metal Casting and build the Colossus but here it looks like a gambit. The list above looks like more of a priority.

    My preference for warring would be to take Isabella out with Trebuchets and Crossbows but it may happen earlier with Catapults and Swords.

    How fast am I supposed to expand? Am I supposed to stay bankrupt and claim as much of the Continent as I can and let the Rathauses fix everything? Or am I supposed to take breaks every once in a while?

    This is my second game on Emperor so I am still not really familiar with how quickly the economy crashes.

    Attached Files:

  13. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

    Jun 13, 2006
    This is a very good map for practicing my war start on Emperor (which I am horrible at) with a Civ that doesnt have any ancient era bonuses.

    So far I keep on failing at trying to conquer Joao :x

    In my last attempt I nearly pulled it off, but he had horses connected and I was attacking fully with an army of CR axes which ended up getting killed.

    Next attempt - Add some medic spears to my axe stacks!

    In your case if you managed to comfortably conquer Joao and build the GLH, then once your cities have Rathouses built it should be a very comfortable win.
  14. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    The Axe buildup was between about Turn 45 where I started building Barracks and Turn 70 where I had ten Axes. I really wish I took more pictures along the way but I did keep a more detailed turn log.

    I have to go somewhere but I might dig it out so that you can see my buildup.

    ADDIT: Here it is:
    Spoiler :

    Turn 55 - I had 2 Barracks and 1 Axeman
    Turn 56 - Axeman 2 built in Aachen
    Turn 57 - Axeman 3 built in Prague
    Turn 61 - Axeman 4 built in Aachen and Axeman 5 in Prague
    Turn 63 - Worker in Aachen
    Turn 64 - Axeman 6 in Aachen and Axeman 7 in Prague
    Turn 65 - Axeman 8 in Prague
    Turn 67 - Axeman 9 in Aachen and Barracks in Vienna
    Turn 68 - Axeman 10 in Prague

    I left out the details about chopping and whipping.

    I am not very good at axe rushes either. That is why I asked so many questions before pulling the trigger on it. Also I got very lucky at the start and only lost one Axe against three Archers on a city.

    One key is to have lots of Axes. How many did you build?

    Among the first things I saw in my Axe Rush was a Chariot, but Joao did not build them in quantity - not even enough to make a counter attack.

    It can always be worse, right? I could have spawned like this next to Tokugawa. Actually any unit spammer would make life painful.
  15. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    First of all I finally downloaded the BUG Mod and I am trying it. Thanks to everybody who was patiently BUGging me. It looks like I have an automatic turnlogger so I am going to try it out!


    I played another 22 turns up to Turn 139 or 580AD. I am mostly using the autoturnlogger and inserting comments and pictures and dispensing with the "noise."

    Spoiler :

    Logging by BUG Mod 4.4 [Build 2220] (BtS 3.13-3.19)
    Turn 117/500 (50 AD) [18-Sep-2011 07:41:08]
    Research begun: Iron Working (24 Turns)
    Prague begins: Rathaus (14 turns)
    0% Research: 0 per turn
    0% Espionage: 4 per turn
    100% Gold: 10 per turn, 20 in the bank

    I am going to dispense with a lot of this but this is what the default settings look like.

    After End Turn:
    Mainz grows to size 3
    Mainz finishes: Library
    Ulm grows to size 3
    Florence grows to size 3

    Same here - This is way past the time where we are keeping track of growth.

    Turn 118/500 (75 AD) [18-Sep-2011 07:46:13]
    Diplomacy (Tribute Demand): Isabella (Spain) demands that Charlemagne (Holy Rome) gives ; Charlemagne REFUSES.

    I am not giving any gifts to somebody I am going to war with anyway!

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Ulm
    Lisbon finishes: Settler

    Turn 119/500 (100 AD) [18-Sep-2011 07:49:07]
    Luxemburg founded
    Luxemburg begins: Granary (60 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Nuremberg finishes: Worker

    Turn 120/500 (125 AD) [18-Sep-2011 07:53:37]
    Nuremberg begins: Rathaus (30 turns)

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Aachen
    The whip was applied in Augsburg
    Aachen finishes: Rathaus
    Augsburg finishes: Library

    Turn 121/500 (150 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:00:08]
    Augsburg begins: Rathaus (30 turns)
    Confucianism has spread: Florence

    After End Turn:
    Whip anger has decreased in Augsburg

    Turn 122/500 (175 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:05:17]
    A Cottage was built near Florence

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Prague
    Prague finishes: Rathaus
    Ulm finishes: Work Boat

    Turn 124/500 (225 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:13:23]
    Diplomacy (Help Request): Isabella (Spain) asks Charlemagne (Holy Rome) for ; Charlemagne REFUSES.

    My diplomacy with women is second to none!

    Other Player Actions:
    Isabella (Spain) declares war on Charlemagne (Holy Rome)
    Attitude Change: Isabella (Spain) towards Charlemagne (Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

    Sure enough - We all knew this was coming! I did not take a picture. Of course since I was working on Rathauses I was not really prepared for a war but here goes.

    I also founded Strassburg on that turn. Maybe that was the issue.

    So 250AD the war with Isabella was on! She appears to be a religious nut and declares war as a matter of principle and not necessarily when a large stack is ready. I did not see a stack of Swords anyway.

    I should have taken pictures of her revealed land but did not think of it at the time - Sorry. :blush:

    Spoiler :

    Turn 125/500 (250 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:17:11]
    Other Player Actions:
    Christianity founded in a distant land
    State Religion Change: Charlemagne (Holy Rome) from 'no State Religion' to 'Confucianism'

    What the heck? I might as well have some Religion now that I am at war with Isabella.

    Attitude Change: Isabella (Spain) towards Charlemagne (Holy Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

    Sure enough. Can she hate me any more?

    Turn 126/500 (275 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:21:13]
    After End Turn:
    Vienna finishes: Rathaus
    Mainz finishes: Rathaus
    Florence finishes: Granary

    Still working on infrastructure.

    Turn 127/500 (300 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:24:07]
    Vienna begins: Axeman (3 turns)
    Mainz begins: Barracks (8 turns)
    Florence begins: Rathaus (60 turns)

    Slowly restarting the War Machine.

    While attacking, Axeman decimates Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 98.8%)
    While attacking in Spanish territory at Santiago, Axeman (4.30/5) defeats Spanish Archer (Prob Victory: 98.8%)

    This was an opportunity strike from one of my units exploring the Spanish Empire.

    After End Turn:
    Prague finishes: Settler

    Turn 128/500 (325 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:26:30]

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Nuremberg
    Lisbon finishes: Rathaus
    Nuremberg finishes: Rathaus

    Turn 129/500 (350 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:31:29]
    Nuremberg begins: Barracks (50 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Tech research finished: Iron Working

    Finally! Iron Working - and Aachen has Iron!

    Turn 130/500 (375 AD) [18-Sep-2011 08:37:40]
    Research begun: Mathematics (13 Turns)

    Mathematics opens the door towards Calendar and Construction. I need both.

    While attacking in Spanish territory at Murcia, Axeman (5.00/5) defeats Spanish Worker (Prob Victory: 98.8%)

    Yay! Worker Steal! I took a break here - the time lapse should indicate either I went somewhere or I fell asleep.

    Turn 130/500 (375 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:11:07]
    Aachen begins: Chariot (5 turns)
    Prague begins: Chariot (6 turns)
    Lisbon begins: Chariot (3 turns)

    I might as well build some Chariots. Isabella seems to have lots of Axes and no access to Horses.

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Pisa
    Augsburg finishes: Rathaus
    Pisa finishes: Granary

    Turn 131/500 (400 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:12:19]
    Axeman promoted: City Raider I
    Axeman promoted: City Raider II
    While attacking, Axeman decimates Spanish Swordsman (Prob Victory: 69.4%)
    While attacking in Spanish territory at Murcia, Axeman (0.50/5) defeats Spanish Swordsman (Prob Victory: 69.4%)
    Captured Murcia (Isabella)
    Murcia begins: Granary (61 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Lisbon finishes: Chariot
    Mainz finishes: Barracks

    Turn 132/500 (425 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:24:17]
    After End Turn:
    Vienna finishes: Axeman

    Turn 133/500 (450 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:30:33]
    Lubeck founded
    Lubeck begins: Granary (30 turns)

    After End Turn:
    Aachen finishes: Chariot
    Prague finishes: Chariot
    Lisbon finishes: Chariot

    Turn 134/500 (475 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:34:45]
    Aachen begins: Market (15 turns)
    Prague begins: Market (17 turns)
    Lisbon begins: Market (12 turns)

    I went back to building infrastructure because my economy is still pretty pathetic.

    After End Turn:
    Augsburg finishes: Barracks
    Mainz finishes: Chariot
    Luxemburg finishes: Granary

    Turn 135/500 (500 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:39:10]
    Augsburg begins: Swordsman (3 turns)
    Mainz begins: Swordsman (4 turns)
    Luxemburg begins: Lighthouse (9 turns)

    Turn 136/500 (520 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:45:54]

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Aachen
    The whip was applied in Florence
    The whip was applied in Strassburg
    Aachen finishes: Market
    Florence finishes: Rathaus
    Pisa grows to size 4
    Strassburg finishes: Work Boat

    Turn 137/500 (540 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:49:30]
    Aachen begins: Swordsman (5 turns)
    Florence begins: Market (75 turns)
    Strassburg begins: Granary (60 turns)
    Chariot 1 (Lisbon) (Chariot) promoted: Combat I
    While attacking, Chariot 1 (Lisbon) (Chariot) decimates Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 74.5%)
    While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Strassburg, Chariot 1 (Lisbon) (0.40/4) defeats Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 74.5%)

    Oppurtunity strike on one of Isabella's Axes sneaking up in the Jungle.

    After End Turn:
    Augsburg finishes: Swordsman

    Turn 138/500 (560 AD) [18-Sep-2011 13:56:13]
    Augsburg begins: Swordsman (3 turns)

    After End Turn:
    The whip was applied in Ulm
    Mainz finishes: Swordsman
    Ulm finishes: Rathaus

    Turn 139/500 (580 AD) [18-Sep-2011 14:03:23]
    Mainz begins: Swordsman (4 turns)
    While attacking, Chariot 4 (Lisbon) (Chariot) escapes from Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 76.3%)
    While attacking in Spanish territory at Salamanca, Chariot 4 (Lisbon) loses to Spanish Axeman (0.60/5) (Prob Victory: 76.3%)
    While attacking, Axeman decimates Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 65.5%)
    While attacking in Spanish territory at Salamanca, Axeman (5.00/5) defeats Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 65.5%)
    While attacking, Axeman decimates Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
    While attacking in Spanish territory at Salamanca, Axeman (5.00/5) defeats Spanish Axeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
    Captured Salamanca (Isabella)
    Salamanca begins: Work Boat (31 turns)

    Zhuge Liang (Great General) born in Vienna

    This is my second Great General.

    While attacking, Axeman decimates Spanish Swordsman (Prob Victory: 65.7%)
    While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Strassburg, Axeman (5.00/5) defeats Spanish Swordsman (Prob Victory: 65.7%)

    Another Opportunity Attack. I decided to end the war at this point. Below is a good reason to quit while ahead.

    Charlemagne (Holy Rome) and Isabella (Spain) have signed a peace treaty
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Meditation
    Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Archery

    So I have sold ten turns of peace and managed to keep a couple of ill-gotten coastal cities. The peace is not destined to last however.

    Infrastructure is coming in to help repair the economy. Those cities with Infrastructure and Barracks will build Archers and distribute them to serve as Garrison. This will free up my Axes for an attack. Vienna which has a settled Great General will produce Swordsmen.

    Mathematics will be completed in the next turn.
    Calendar is next because I have access to two Resources and I need Happiness really badly. I seem to be very restricted on the Happy Cap.
    Construction is after that because Catapults just make things a whole lot easier.

    The next round after Isabella will go for the heart. Barcelona is next, then Madrid. But I figured ten turns allows me to organize a military strike.

    QUESTION: Should I join my Great General to another city or should I join a CR3 Axe or should I make a Supermedic Archer?

    Attached Files:

  16. mikew633

    mikew633 Chieftain

    Jul 9, 2011
    Hi guys,

    Newer, Noble-level Civ player here, so forgive my ignorance, but how come on this playthrough and others I have seen do you settle cities with overlap in their coverage areas? Wouldn't this be a negative, as it reduces the total amount of workable tiles by the two cities?

    Just wondering...
  17. GGracchus

    GGracchus Tribune of Rome

    Nov 27, 2010
    That's true, but a city won't be able to work all 20 tiles for quite a long time, and if the cities do not require a spare food resource or one has more cottageable tiles than it can work and the other has some spare citizens, then it's good to overlap. Also, to gain more beneficial city sites, don't be afraid to share city spots. You can always run more specialists if you have extra citizens.
  18. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

    Dec 16, 2008
    I can understand what you are saying. I could have accepted a limited number of cities and build a couple of wonders while peacefully managing Joao and Izzy while teching my way to the other Continent.

    What I have done is doom myself to a slogfest to win one Continent while the other Continent wins all the Wonders - very much like my previous two games.

    The only approach I can think of is not worry so much about what is happening on the other Continent - Just focus on taking out Isabella. I am almost at 1000AD and have finally researched Construction and am working on Machinery and then I can go for Engineering.

    I am not sure if there was a better way to approach the war. Was I supposed to cut on the number of cities and focus a bit more on key technologies?

    Mine is looking like a bloodfest. :yuck:

    What did your shadow look like? Did Izzy take over the entire southern half of the Continent?
  19. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

    Aug 6, 2003
    One step ahead of the authorities
    You pretty much had to take out Joao It's unfortunate that this leads to semi-iso but thems the breaks. You were going to get hemmed in badly if you did anything else.

    I agree with you. Take the whole continent.
  20. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

    Feb 2, 2002
    Czech Rep.
    I settled very aggressively towards joao so I had the pigs spot in the west, then the corn just west, then copper city to north and sheep+stone city.

    I put over the channel 1 city for horses + sea food.

    Joao was even smaller then me with ~4 cities.
    Izzy was around 10 at the time I abandoned the game.

    I could have sneaked in 1 more city over channel in total jungle, so I could have been around 7 cities (maybe some marginal spot in north around coast if there is some seafood could make it 8).
    Right now I don't remember the tech pace. I think it was nothing spectacular. Would have waited for cuirs anyway since I had horses and I think even some iron secured.

    I still am not sure it is the right answer to this game though since I didn't play it out ;-), wanted to, but have some other things going.

    As for what have you done or should done. I think at the time of finishing Joao you had to have some solution for Izzy situation.
    I offered you taking her religion and making her friendly which would lift up the trade tech embargo, she is one of those leaders that can be made to friendly rather easily.

    Other posters were for war. I think going CoL then wasn't the best solution, you need cats for such late war.
    I agree you need to finish her since now she is completely useless to you. But the question is how of course.

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