[BTS] Emperor Shadow Game with Alexander; Help me get better at Emperor!

[CGQ]

After taking a bit of a hiatus I got back into CIV IV and underestimated how addicting it is. After starting a couple maps and getting the same results (Not playing the map properly, not dominating by 1300 AD, Great artists give up painting for sports, etc.).

I want to improve and eventually win Immortal! So without any further due, here's my shadow game!

Spoiler 4000 BC Turn 0 :

Map Settings:
Emperor
Continents
Standard
Temperate
Medium Sea Level
Huts & Events both turned off

Our randomly chosen leader is Alexander!

Philosophical has been my 3rd favorite trait, with financial being #2, spiritual #4 and creative #1. I love those fast great scientists! (not sure about aggressive though)

I'm already tempted to hit "regenerate land" button after this start...

Can't be too bad huh?

So yeah, I do want to challenge myself a bit so I want to give this map a shot. Maybe the surrounding land is better and will make up for the poor capital?
Either way if I can do good on this map then I can really dominate on better starts.

Back to this, I'm thinking to move my scout 1 S or SE since I do see greener land to the south. The transition from oaks/maple to pines suggest that I'm somewhere in the middle of the northern hemisphere, closer to the north pole than equator.

The hills to the left of my settler suggest maybe this could be a good production capital and could pump out aggressive units to conquer land? Desert tile to the north suggests a possible desert, so good land could be to the south or east.

I'm definitely not sure about SIP here, since I have two weak plains cow as my food source as far as I know, though there may be a better source than that if I move hopefully. This is going to be interesting...

 

[sampsa]

1W is better than SIP. 1E is thinkable, maybe scout move will reveal something.

 

[CGQ]

1W is better than SIP. 1E is thinkable, maybe scout move will reveal something.

Spoiler Update :

Scout only revealed a floodplain to the south east:


I SIP'ed:


Initial border pop didn't reveal much either. The land really is this crappy lol

 

[sampsa]

May I ask your thoughts on why to SIP?

 

[Fippy]

Strange indeed, SIP gained neither an extra or a 3rd cow.
Taking advice from guys like Sampsa would benefit you much, but i guess you already knew that..

 

[Gumbolt]

You got one bit of advice to settle 1W and you ignored it?

Would of shaved 2 turns off your worker. I think replay 1st turn.

Albeit your capital would be better near the river grassland/flood plains. Always move it later.

 

[CGQ]

Strange indeed, SIP gained neither an extra or a 3rd cow.
Taking advice from guys like Sampsa would benefit you much, but i guess you already knew that..

Spoiler Replayed First two turns :

Sorry about that. I'm stupid and was in a bit of a rush so I misread it as "SIP is thinkable" lol


I went back and settled 1W for the 12 turn worker. Definitely better than SIP!



Scout revealed wet corn down the river, could this be a good potential cottage city?

 

[sampsa]

You should probably found two cities in that river area. With creative you could consider 1N of floodplain to have everything in one city. Further scouting will reveal what exact spots are best.

edit: oh and AH certainly first tech, but I'd recommend to make habit out of select/de-select for first 5T. You also should work the lake for 1T to finish AH and worker on the same turn.

 

[CGQ]

Spoiler Played to turn 8 :

Will do, Sampa. Alexander is showing as philosophical and aggressive for me though, not creative (Shame too, I love creative)

Moved my scout further east:

I found a coastal area and a clam up north east.

Went west-south-west and found two elephants:

Looks like we're nearing the equator. Also revealed a 3rd elephant below the left one.

Turn 6 I found stone:


Empire at Turn 8:


What do you think so far?

 

[sampsa]

Yes, I meant if you were playing a creative leader, you could grab it all with one city. Without CRE, only rarely should food go to the 2nd ring. Don't forget to run the lake for 1T. I don't see any reason to grow past size 2 with these tiles, so build warriors, switch to settler immediately when reaching size 2.

 

[Jellybug]

I'm playing along with you @CGQ , also at Emperor. It's a bit of a low econ start, and ButtChin has sub-par starting techs usually. So when I see that stone and the elephants, I think build pyramids, with the intention of a Construction attack if we have neighbors, or else not falling hopelessly behind if isolated.

I have a a few questions for the vets.

Spoiler My Q :

What should I do with this Great Engineer? Save for G.Lib? I'm planning on attacking Caesar or Hannibal with Elephants. I have the pyramids, great wall, and stonehenge, with two more settlers on the way. Also, I can't help but think I should have grabbed very very early writing, before bronze working. I almost ran out of stuff to build.

 

[Fippy]

Bulbing MC should be considered, having forges for the first wars makes a nice difference.
Glib nope, if you are going construction you will / should ignore Aest

Look at your gold problems, which delays your attack by dozens of turns, and think about fail gold from SH and Great Wall instead of completing them.
With copper (and on Emp) there was esp. no need for TGW.

 

[sampsa]

@Jellybug

Spoiler :

Looks pretty grim already. Those wonders aren't doing you much good, while both your expansion and tech are absolutely horrible. Like Fippy pointed out, it's often better not to finish those weaker wonders. Mids is often great, but probably not with this land as it's so -poor.

 

[CGQ]

Spoiler Played to Turn 14 :

Turn 11 I meet our first AI:



Scout moved north, Athens worked the lake tile once for a boost towards AH.

Got AH and worker out at same time, then he immediately started on cows SE of capital:

Also scout discovered dry corn to the north.

AH also revealed horses. Perhaps I could build a city on that hill our scout is standing on?

Capital is now working on warrior for spawn busting. After it grows to size 2 I'll start on a settler using two cows which by then I'll hopefully have BW and I can chop it out even quicker.

 

[sampsa]

@CGQ

Spoiler :

Thoughts on why you like mining-BW now? What do you think about working the lake (22) instead of unimproved cow (21) before the cow is improved?

 

[CGQ]

@CGQ

Spoiler :

Thoughts on why you like mining-BW now? What do you think about working the lake (22) instead of unimproved cow (21) before the cow is improved?

Spoiler :

I always read to get BW as soon as possible for chopping settlers and workers. Would it have been better to work on agri after AH first then mining-BW? I played a few turns ahead and realized that my worker won't have anything to do for like 5-7 turns after that 2nd cow.

 

[sampsa]

@CGQ

Spoiler :

While going for a quick BW is often good, I think here it's a mistake. It's two techs away, your capital has 8 natural at size 2 already AND as you point out, your worker runs out of things to do. I think your next two cities should go to the river in the east, one to grab cows and another for corn. Pretty sure you can settle 3rd city before T50 and should have agri by then. So now you have a bit of time. How about going wheel-agri-pottery? To me it feels very natural, since is what your empire lacks.

You didn't answer my 2nd question. In these circumstances, I think 22 is a much better tile than 21.

 

[CGQ]

@CGQ

Spoiler :

While going for a quick BW is often good, I think here it's a mistake. It's two techs away, your capital has 8 natural at size 2 already AND as you point out, your worker runs out of things to do. I think your next two cities should go to the river in the east, one to grab cows and another for corn. Pretty sure you can settle 3rd city before T50 and should have agri by then. So now you have a bit of time. How about going wheel-agri-pottery? To me it feels very natural, since is what your empire lacks.

You didn't answer my 2nd question. In these circumstances, I think 22 is a much better tile than 21.

Spoiler :

Oh now I get it, I never thought of that actually. Plus BW costs a lot of beakers and I'm not making many right now compared to the I already have. I agree on the lake tile, I'm going to work that tile in the time being instead of the cow tile and follow your suggested tech path.

 

[CGQ]

Spoiler Played to Turn 23 :

After AH I set tech to The Wheel

Turn 16:
I meet 2nd AI:


And scout reveals more corn to the north just west of horses. Could another city could go here to snatch horses later?

Also looks like Caesar's scout took quite a hit from the lion earlier!

Working the lake shaved 1-2 turns off the wheel:


Turn 17: Scout continues to trend westward

Turn 18:
Worker finishes cow, Athens now works cow tile to grow to size 2:




I start working improved cow which cost me one turn of The Wheel:


Turn 19: Warrior is finished in capital, he heads west to spawn bust our 2nd city by the river and workers head to improve 2nd cows.
Also scout revealed another decent city site to the west coast, clams and grass cows:


Turn 20: Scout heads eastwards now
Workers start on 2nd cows:

Turn 21: Scout continues SE, warrior heads straight east to the area around 3rd cow.

Turn 22: 2nd warrior done in Athens. He heads South to spawn bust by the coast.


Turn 23: Athens grows to size 2, I work the improved cow and lake until second cow is done:


Cows finish in the same turn. I immediately switch to cows. Sadly it'll cost me one turn of agriculture but it will be done same time as settler at least:


What do I do with my worker now? I can't farm or chop anything. Should I have done Agri first then the wheel?

 

[sampsa]

@CGQ

Spoiler :

I think wheel first is good. It's rare to build roads this early, but I think here it is useful to connect first two cities, because is so low. I would settle 3E of capital (or 3E1N) so this requires only two roads. It's important to keep 1N of eastern corn open for next city. There are decent spots in the north too (especially the plains hill 5N1E of capital, catches corn on 1st ring and oasis after capital pops 3rd ring), but I think those spots can wait. 2nd city has only a plains cow, so it's not very strong, but it can remain at size 1 building workers for a while.

I think it's a pretty important concept to look how many good tiles your city has available and then mostly stay at that size. Here it's 2 for capital and 1 for 2nd city, which is not great, but not much you can do about it. When you can lay down cottages your cities can grow to work them.