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Emperor Tutorial Series I - The Pyramids based SE (Monarch/Prince players welcome)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by feralminded, Feb 3, 2009.

  1. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    This is a new series I am working on in hopes of actually getting players over the hump and into the Emperor level of play. I personally found this to be the biggest barrier for me between low level play and high level play (I got my first immortal win within 2 weeks of my first Emperor win because one here it just "clicked"). I know there is some overlap with the wonderful cookbook series (which was my inspiration) but the focus here is going to be less on "best ball" practices and more on step by step analysis. I do encourage people to take each save and play along to see how they do but I will be playing something of a "control" game to try and keep on task and to clearly show the strategies and tactics in use. Hopefully it's not the only game being played (and hopefully better players than me feel like contributing as well) but it's alright if I end up doing this solo.

    That doesn't mean I won't make mistakes (hell we might lose) nor does it mean someone won't win first. I plan on playing through a short period of time (and hopefully other people will as well) and then discussing the decisions made to get there and where we're planning on going. Every choice is really up for discussion/debate ... in fact I am hoping to stimulate a fair amount of discussion as this can yield the strongest lessons ... and as I said if someone has a better idea I have no problems switching gears and picking up from their game.

    I know a lot of players say you don't play a strategy or a leader but rather you play the map. While this is true at the highest levels everyone has to start somewhere. The reason why the best players can just say things like that is because they already have mastered all of the various strategies and techniques and now its just a matter of applying it as necessary based on the conditions. For newer players who don't understand the fundamentals of each strategy as well as lack the ability to analyze a situation and determine how to handle it, it's just not possible to expect them to be that dynamic. In that vein each game in this series will focus instead on an major economic strategy. I consider myself qualified to teach at least two (Ind/'mids-SE and CE) and may attempt a third (Phi-SE). It would be great to maybe attempt an RE and EE and down the line but I probably am not the right player to lead such attempts but we'll see it when we get there.

    I see this being something of an iterative process (I figure 3-4 days per round) as outlined below:
    1. I'm going to play through some of the game and provide detailed analysis of my decisions along the way.
    2. Other people can also play along and see how far they get. The newer (to Emperor) players can try and follow along and implement the strategy I outline and see how they do compared to me. People are welcome to wildly deviate and we can discuss the merits of such an approach but the goal of the series is to stick to one strategy per game.
    3. We will compare/contrast/analyze the decisions made along the way. Just because I chose to do something doesn't make it "right".
    4. We will decide on a path for the next segment and then off we go to implement it.
    5. Rinse/Recycle

    So welcome to the first segment of this series. We'll be focused on the first economy I learned and used to work my way up from Noble through Immortal, the 'mids powered Specialist Economy. The basic premise is we hammer out the Pyramids to run Representation early so that we can run specialists with an extra +3 :science: a piece. This lets you over expand and warmonger very hard while still maintaining a strong economy. It's not foolproof by any means and it starts to wane somewhat after liberalism so we do have something of a timeframe in which to establish a dominant position.

    We will be playing Ramesses II

    I consider him the absolute strongest leader for this type of economy and presumably as beginners you will want every advantage you can get. He has the requisite IND and SPI will find no limits of use under an SE (as I hope to show you). The UB has some fairly nice synergy with an SE in that you can work priests before you have libraries up to get some :science: going. The WC is also one of the strongest UUs in the game and if we have the opportunity we will crush some poor neighbor. Make no mistake the SE is a warmonger economy. The map is Standard/Epic. Larger and smaller maps have their charm but standard seems to fit most people's needs. Epic I find is simply more forgiving when learning and with an SE our preferred victory path is domination this will benefit us.

    For the first iteration I would like us to play until 1000BC. Please keep any discussions beyond the opening and starting strategy/goals in spoiler tags for any late comers. I would like to have our next set of goals ironed out by Friday 2/6 so we can play the next segment over the weekend.

    Immediate Game Goals (4000BC->1000BC):
    • Find/Expand to Horses: Our UU is just too good not to prioritize.
    • Scout for a potential rush target.
    • Either Rush an enemy OR build Stonehenge. We have to make this choice by ~2700BC because SH will very likely be gone by 2000BC. Its ok if we miss SH but being IND AND having a UB Monument makes SH actually a decent investment. The early settled priest GP won't hurt us either.
    • Build 'mids by 1000BC and go Representation to relieve our Happy cap.
    • Try to get a 10XP unit either fighting barbs or in the rush so we can build HE.
    • If we choose to rush we probably need to have already taken an enemy capital by 1000BC.
    • If we don't rush we should have at least 4 expansions and be blocking off territory from the AI.

    Here's our map. I've attached the save game. I had honestly planned to re-roll until we got stone but this was the first one that came up. I believe I chose Pangea but this might be fractal. No huts, no events. Yes the goal was to have favorable conditions since we are learning. I already have my notes/saves until 1000BC which I will post in a subsequent post.

    Attached Files:

  2. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    Here's my game 4000BC->2500BC
    Spoiler :

    Started out scouting in the typical spiral. My worker is going to hit up that cattle and then the corn and then the flood plains (they suck to improve). I plan to grow the capital to size 4 before spitting out settlers. I go AH out the door because I want to find those ponies ASAP or rule out the rush and prioritize copper. In 8 turns someone found me (looks good for a rush).

    He's a nice candidate for a rush since he will almost always found an early religion and isn't PRO. That said in 3550 I find my ponies just north of the capital sitting next to a couple of floodplains and some wine. Can anyone guess where my first settler is going?

    Teching Mining->BronzeWorking next to take advantage of that monster forest around the capital. If we can rush we'll go Masonry next, if we can't we need to get our hands on mysticism for SH/Obelisk. We meet some more friends.

    Wow. Not bad neighbors. Willem is the only one I worry much about since he techs VERY hard but he's usually amiable enough. Peter we'll run over at some point and Justin is usually very cautious so we've done ok so far.

    And here we are at 2500BC:

    You know Brennus is technically close enough to rush and with some hard chopping/whipping we could definitely get ourselves to him by 1000BC but our land is unbelievably good and my instincts are telling me we'd be crazy not to box off the AI and simply bag ourselves 10-12 solid cities right now. I've decided to ditch the rush for now and instead focus on boxing off our land down south. First is the Rice/Copper city near Brennus ... then if possible get the rice/elephant city due south ... and finally the corn/dye city South East. This will leave us a small hole that the gems/banana city will need to plug but we'll see how we do on the first ones. We may not get that rice/elephant city and instead will settle the gems/banana instead.

    Regardless that leaves us the fish/wine/copper city directly west of Thebes, a nice FP/Cow city NE of us, a nice cow/rice city east of us, and a crab city up on the NE coast. There might be other fish out there too for another nice city and I think it's maybe worth settling the gold city as well (although this will be later) even without a solid food resource.

    I think the lesson here is just because we CAN rush doesn't mean we always should. The real trick now will be SH. As soon as that settler finishes in thebes I plan on chopping with a vengeance to get it out. I figure if we get it, we'll get it around 2200-2300BC.

    And here's the play by play
    Spoiler :

    4000BC - Settled in place, started scouting in a spiral. Teching Animal Husbandry, building a Worker.
    3800BC - Met Brennus from SW.
    3600BC - Finished scouting peninsual due east. Fish, rice, spices, crab, cows, and some flood plains. Nice long term expansion territory.
    3550BC - Finished AH, started Mining. Horses due north and horses on the peninsula.
    3425BC - Worker done, start on Warrior. Worker improves Cows. Meet Peter
    3400BC - Find Gold SE of Thebes ... no food though :(.
    3325BC - Meet Justinian
    3275BC - Finish Mining, Start on Bronze Working. Worker finishes cows, works corn.
    3175BC - Warrior done, working on another one. Find Elephants S/SE of Thebes. Meet Willem.
    3050BC - Worker finishes corn, send him to flood plain.
    3000BC - Find Gems almost due south of Thebes, only bananas nearby :(
    2975BC - Warrior finishes, start Barracks.
    2900BC - Thebes hits size 4, switch to working on settler.
    2775BC - Worker finishes FP, Finish BW. Start on Mysticism and worker chops forest North of city. Copper due west and SW of Thebes. Go slavery.
    2625BC - Worker finishes chop, heads to chop hills NE of city. Settler heads north to settle horses, 2nd settler half done. Get Woods2 Warrior up.
    2575BC - Memphis settled between horse and FP, starts on Worker.
    2550BC - Mysticism done, started on Masonry.

    Attached Files:

  3. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    Here's what I've done through 2500BC->1000BC and the save as well

    Spoiler :

    Well I manage to chop out SH in about 6 turns and at 2300BC we have our prize. Please note 2300 is by no means a guarantee for SH but if we had failed we wouldn't have minded the :gold: either.

    My only fear with SH is that it will pollute our GP pool and the capital is looking to be the SSC. While I don't mind the early GP I really don't want more than one and it's going to really suck if we get a Prophet to spawn when we really need a scientist to bulb Education for us later. I guess we're just going to have to roll the dice here but ideally I would have built SH in the #2 city to keep it away from my scientists. If I had the patience to reply I might just do that but I think its worth seeing how this plays out. I'm just about to finish up Masonry and am going Writing immediately after. Thanks to SH we could rely on our priests to make some :science: for us once we get 'mids up but I'd much prefer to get libraries up early. We're also really cutting it close here with the barbs. Technically they can't cross our borders yet but there are sharks swimming around out there. We'll need some WCs up sooner than later.

    2050BC ... hello JC, please be far away.

    I suspect he's half a continent away so whatever ... but we have to keep in mind if he smells weakness on us he will send a pile of Praets across the map to conquer us. Our border cities will need to be vigilant but in theory we will have 'phants to smack around his Praets if he gets testy.

    2000BC overview

    Well we got the first block down. Heliopolis is perfectly positioned here and I'm pretty sure that's either the 3rd or 4th ring of Brennus' capital so he won't be pushing on our culture border anytime soon (in fact we might push him back a bit). I am kind of unsure if I should have set Heliopolis on one of those hills just for the defense bonus because there can be no doubt its going to be a city embroiled in war. That said with only the copper there for production I kind of felt I needed both mines for the :hammers: and I wanted to get a piece of that amazon river action south of me. I think it will be ok but I'm not certain. That said we have bigger immediate issues with Barbs. Still no WCs and I am gambling a bit here on the barracks. I should probably just spit out a WC but I've managed to fend off archers easily enough so far with careful use of my woods II warrior. Honestly until axes show up my warriors can probably do enough. That said axes are due out in the next 500-800 years ... very soon. If you are not comfortable fending off barbs with warriors I recommend you NOT do what I did here and instead go straight for WCs instead of the barracks.

    1500BC Overview

    Well our situation has not improved much. WCs are on the way. I have a couple of serious archer slaying warriors out there but axes are likely to start showing soon so I'm getting edgy. We got that southern city and still no one is threatening to rex into us. 'mids are going to come well before 1000BC which is very safe. Our economy is about to tank so getting a library up in the capital immediately following the 'mids is going to be key. We really need the happiness from Rep as well. Right now the goal is to get ourselves barb proof and recover or economy a bit with some scientists.

    Yey! Level 4 unit so we can HE when it's time. Now we have to evac this guy carefully home because while he fears no archer if he runs into an axe he's all done and he's extremely precious. He's a GG away from a super medic which will help us crush our enemies mercilessly.

    1375! Plenty early but not a moment too soon. We NEED that happiness badly, our citizens are screaming. Also I don't have an image for it but I think we met Pacal around this time. He's bad news ... he's a tech fiend and not nearly as friendly as Willem.

    And here we are at 1000BC


    Memphis/Production City

    Heliopolis/Production/Border City

    Elephantine/Unloved City

    I have no intention of completing the great wall because frankly we don't need it and I don't want the spy points ruining my GP pool any more than it already is. That said with stone/IND the failure cash is highway robbery on our part (I think I would be able to complete it in 8 turns from start to finish no whips or chops). I'm probably going to squeeze out another chariot as soon it hits 1 turn and hope anyone builds it soon because we could use the :gold:. It's very odd that no one has built it yet.

    Heliopolis is working out great so far. It will need some culture buildings to keep up with the Jones' and I've decided I want to drop the HE there to help out with it's border popping. I am planning on sending my settler down to the corn/dye city and that might just be the end of our current expansion ... although I'm going to really try and finish off with the gems/banana city because I know willem or Brennus will take it if I don't. Our economy can probably support both. Elephantine is the failure story so far ... I just haven't been able to get down there to love it but without Iron Working there's not much I can do to comfort it. It's ok right now its mostly just taking up space which is good enough. There's a killer city site just south of Elephantine but its too far for us to expand (and it will probably provoke peter if we take it from him sooner than we want to fight).

    The Russians and I believe ONLY the russians are east of me (JC, Justin, and Pacal all came from the west). I think they will be our first victim which will likely give us half the map. That said he's likely to be the only other AI with Elephants so if we want to make an elephant war we probably need to pick on Brennus instead. Still not sure yet and we need more scouting. Scouting is going to be a priority here. We also need to secure our borders with troops. All of these Civs will be finishing up their Rexx's soon enough and then they will be looking to pick on weak people. We've got a lot of cities to build but we must be careful not to let our guard down.

    Also we have a gift of a barb city east of Elephantine which will have Peter scratching his head for a while. They will keep him from rexxing into us too soon which is fairly nice. I suspect Peter is going to grab that gold city south of us first which will buy us the time we need to settle the corn/dye.

    Finally we need to pick some friends. My instincts tell me either Pacal or Willem due to their tech rate but I'm just not sure yet. We'll probably have to go along religious lines anyhow but its a good idea to start thinking about it. Brennus and Peter I consider fodder so it should be someone else.

    And here's the play by play
    Spoiler :

    2475BC - Worker finishes chop of hill, heads to chop forest East of Thebes.
    2450BC - Settler complete, start Stonehenge. Send settler to settle Rice/Copper next to Brennus.
    2350BC - Heliopolis founded SW of rice by Brennus. Start on Worker.
    2325BC - Worker finishes chop of forest, heads East to chop forest.
    2300BC - Thebes grows to size 5 and is unhappy ... 2 pop whip out SH, start on Warrior.
    2200BC - Finish Warrior (garrison), start on Worker
    2175BC - Worker finishes chop, heads up to horses.
    2050BC - Meet Julius Caesar.
    2075BC - Finish worker, start on 'mids (just growing to size 5). Send worker to quarry. Have to twiddle Thebes to get more food, less hammers.
    2000BC - Memphis pops a worker, starts on barracks. Worker sent to work Flood Plain.
    1975BC - Horses captured, working road (horses will be connected to capital via river).
    1925BC - Thebes starts working on Settler (don't need 'mids just yet).
    1900BC - Horse road done, worker heads to quarry.
    1850BC - Worker starts on Road on Quarry.
    1825BC - Worker finishes quarry, helps with road.
    1775BC - Heliopolis finishes worker, starts on warrior. Worker heads to rice.
    1750BC - Memphis worker finishes FP, heads west to chop hill.
    1725BC - Road to Quarry done. One worker heads North to mine hill NE of Thebes, other heads west to chop forest west of thebes.
    1675BC - Settler finishes, start working on 'mids in earnest. Settler heading down to settle Elephant/Rice city. Twiddle Thebes to maximize hammers, minimize growth. Give the Corn to Memphis for now.
    1600BC - Memphis worker finishes chopping hill, heads south 2 tiles to help chop out mids.
    1575BC - Workers keep chopping. Heliopolis worker heads to copper.
    1550BC - My mine is complete, worker sent to kill more trees.
    1500BC - Settle Elephantine 1E of Rice by Elephants. Barbs start to threaten borders by Thebes, Thebes garrison sent to handle it. Whip out Chariot in Memphis.
    1475BC - Heliopolis whips out Warrior to handle Barb, starts on second.
    1450BC - Hill worker finished, farms Floodplain.
    1425BC - Tech Writing, start on Aesthetics. Open borders with everyone. Heliopolis pops 2nd warrior, starts on Library. Finish chopping hill, start working on road down to Copper/Heliopolis.
    1400BC - Finish chopping final forest, start working on road down to Heliopolis. Whip out 'mids, start work on library.
    1350BC - Finish WC in memphis, start on WC. Heliopolis worker finishes copper, starts making road back to Heliopolis.
    1275BC - One of my road builders stops to chop down some trees to help Thebes with it's library.
    1225BC - Memphis finishes WC, starts on Settler.
    1200BC - Heliopolis worker starts on mine. Flood plain worker heads to improve Memphis's hill.
    1150BC - Chop finishes, whip out library, start working on the highway. Thebes starts working on Great Wall looking for failure cash.
    1025BC - Complete the highway. One worker heads for Elephantine, one heads to chop library for Heliopolis.

    Attached Files:

  4. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

    Oct 30, 2008
    Nice. These days I have the feeling I'm ready to try Emperor (playing Sury's CB as well), so I'll give this a try.

    What's the map size?

    edit: map size is standard. Standard/epic, my fav settings.
  5. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    Yeah sorry about that. I'll edit it into the top post.
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Jan 26, 2008
    I like the premise of the series. As a suggestion, I recommend you select maps that fit the strategy (possibly even world buildering to look at them first). It's true that players have to "play the map", but that also means they have to be able to execute the strategy that makes the most sense on that map. That's impossible without learning each of them (which is why I like this series), but it would make most sense to 1) show a strategy and 2) explain why the strategy fits the map.

    All that said, the nearby stone makes this pretty logical after all :p, at least so far.

    I might shadow games just to see the approach or possibly showcase a different one, should there be a workable alternative.
  7. mc-red

    mc-red King

    Dec 2, 2007
    Signing in. I've pretty much exclusively played monarch since swithcing from civ III. I think i will give my first emperor try liked your tips on emperor thread. :goodjob:
    I like your concept of giving a few days between each segment. Have played till 2700 BC so far.
  8. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

    Oct 30, 2008
    Played to 1000 BC:

    Spoiler :

    techs: ah - mining - myst - masonry - bw - pottery - writing - alpha

    4000 - war goes NW and I decide to settle 1E.

    3975 - Settled 1E. Worker first and AH to locate horses.

    3700 - First AI is Peter.

    3525 - AH done. I don't see horses, but still have to explore NW. Got delayed by animals. Next tech is mining.

    3400 - Worker-->warrior.

    3350 - Next AI is Pacal.

    3275 - Mining-->myst. SHenge is one of our goals.

    3150 - Willem shows up. Warrior-->warrior.

    3050 - I finally locate horses, very close to the N. Future commerce city claiming horse/wine.

    3025 - Mysticism-->masonry.

    2950 - Warrior-->settler.

    2750 - Masonry-->BW.

    2650 - Next AI is Julius Caesar. Settler done, start Stonehenge.

    2575 - Memphis founded and starts building a worker:

    2350 - SHenge done, Great Wall is next. It's not one of our goals, but I think it make sense on this map. SW is very crowded, but NE is empty, and we would get all the barb activity:

    2265 - BW done, switch to slavery. Pottery's next.

    2175 - Wall done and Pyramids next:

    2125 - Meet Brennus. I start thinking we are on a pangaea map.

    2000 - Memphis worker-->worker.

    1900 - Pottery-->writing.

    1700 - Pyramids completed and switch to Representation:

    Thebes switch to a chariot.

    1625 - Chariot-->settler.

    1575 - Memphis worker-->granary.

    1475 - I get a GP, settled in Thebes.

    1450 - Settler done-->2x war chariot.

    1425 - Last AI is Justinian. Writing-->alpha.

    1325 - Chariot-->settler.

    1300 - Heliopolis. Very far away and useless until IW, but this spot is too good to pass up:

    1125 - Settler-->library.

    1075 - Elephantine. Not great long-term potential, but claims fish, copper and wine:

    Here's the empire at 1000 BC:

    That celtic city is very annoying, but is under heavy cultural pressure.
    The SE future city may go 1S from my suggested spot to claim jumbos and banana.
    A lone warrior left in that barb city to the NW, so it will soon be mine. Probably a decent prod city. There is room for 2 or 3 more cities in that peninsula.

    About our goals.
    - Connect horses: done with the second city.

    - Locate potential rush target. Brennus to the W, Willem SW and Peter S. But they all are pretty far away and I think rushing on this map is a bad idea. Too much good land to settle, targets are too far and multiple neighbors would settle everywhere while we are busy fighting.

    - Eiter rush or SHenge: done.

    - Pyramids: done.

    - Unlock HE: done, here is our mighty warrior. Got lev 4 defending vs barb warriors/archers on forested tiles:

    - 4 cities if we don't rush: done, soon to be 5 with that barb city. NE peninsula is blocked, but there are still 2-3 excellent spots to the south.

    Our rivals.
    - Brennus. Likes OR, huge bonus for shared religion and doesn't declare war at pleased. Very easy to get along with, but is the most likely target.

    - Julius Caesar. Likes Rep, declares at pleased. Dangerous warmonger and has already declared was vs Justi in my game.

    - Justinian. Likes Theocracy and doesn't declare at pleased. Big zealot, so shared religion is almost enough to push him to friendly.

    - Pacal. Jerk. Likes HE, declares at pleased. Usually builds huge empires but not enough units to defend them. Let's hope he's boxed in some corner.

    - Peter. Likes Bureau and declares at pleased. Not sure about this guy, he's always middle of the pack in my games.

    - Willem. Seems peaceful but actually his peace prob is tied with some very aggressive leaders. Luckily he never builds enough units. Likes Free Religion. Very good techer. He already has alpha in my game and 4 more techs on me. I think I'll go aesthetics-literature to get the Great Library.

    In my game Will, Justi and JC are jewish, so I'll probably convert and join the main block.
    Brennus is the lone Hindu. Pointless to join him, he's the first to go anyway.
    Peter to the S is Buddhist, and probably will end at war vs Willem, for different religions and border tension.
    JC and Justi are already at war. JC declared, so he's probably boxed in.

    I don't think early war makes sense on this map, so I'll try to settle a couple more cities to the S and then backfill my peninsula, probably waiting for maces/trebs to attack Brennus. Or elephants if I claim them.

    EDIT: I've built a few cottages, but we are trying a pure SE here, until Lib at least. Still, I don't think cottages are completely out of question. We can still work a few of them before Caste System.

  9. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

    Dec 21, 2007
    I like the idea...but you haven't stated what you will do in the event that you miss the Pyramids.

    Do you then try to capture them in war? Buy the city? Reload?
  10. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    Our goal is to get the 'mids at all cost. I understand this isn't always feasible but we have a forest city with stone and an IND leader. I would bet the house we'll get 'mids in this scenario on Emperor 99.9% of the time without trying too hard. This round at least its a show stopper not to get the 'mids. My plan for the Phi-based SE round is to give the 'mids a pass but this round is 'mids based SE. I know it sounds contrived ... in fact it IS contrived ... but this is a tutorial and that's kind of the point. We're taking players who may have never tried this and taking them through the standard sort of steps to success. There's a lot of lessons to be learned in the mid-late game and I don't want them to fret too much worrying about changing strat in the early game.
  11. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

    Dec 24, 2007
    Upstate, NY
    Nice idea feral, one I have had myself, but just dont enjoy doing game's and reports anymore. I have even dropped out of SGs (sorry guys, my SG gang is the BOMB of cool players, its the reports and such I find tedious).

    My plan was to start with my beloved GLH strat. I was planning to take Willy or Hannibal and find a start where I was relatively isolated, but not "isolated", in that a majority of the AIs are reachable by galley. Makes the game a lot easier, and for me, more fun. I am a builder at heart, and love the REXing of a GLH based TRE.

    So I will be watching this game, I am not a great SE player, I just find cottaging more effective, especially later in the game when incredible civics and techs like PP, US, FS, etc come online. My current game is a "pure" SE though, with Pericles, another "top" SE leader.
  12. mc-red

    mc-red King

    Dec 2, 2007
    resource spoiler
    Spoiler :

    2725 BC
    I am a little unsure what to do here. Have located horses to North where as AI peter and brennus are south. Copper is near the celts.
    I calculate 13 tiles to the enemy capital.
    So do I settle north away from AI which I rarely do to get horses and the prepare a chariot rush with two cities or do I settle towards the AI and block of land.
    Will there be time to rush and get Mids on emperor.
    Also flood plains will get farmed in an SE right?
    I usually just blindly cottage FP's

  13. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    mmm ... pericles. He's like the Rexx/builder SE dream leader. For ease of warmongering its hard to beat my buddy the egyptian here though (SPI is a sinister warmonger trait) ... although strangely Degaulle is very strong for warmaking as well (CHA is so sweet and the salon is a nice boon under SE). Good point about the TRE though ... I am no superstar with it but its hard to ignore attempting it with Hannibal. Might do that down the road and hopefully you can strongly contribute to that one. I don't mind writing up reports and giving play by play but I don't have to be the driver.
  14. Deckhand

    Deckhand Procrastination at its finest GOTM Staff

    Sep 22, 2008
    Cool, I will try to play along. I now consider myself a Monarch player (although I haven't won a game at that level yet). I usually try to use new leaders and haven't played with Ramesses yet, so that's nice.


    For sure, 3-4 days gives us time to play and read. I don't have time to read MadScientist's games (and I spend too much time on CF.C) much less to play along.
  15. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    Spoiler :

    I don't want to give away too much of the map but I did settle right between those horses and the FP with my 2nd city. I honestly believe a rush is possible on this map because Brennus is moderately close but without seeing how much you've explored its hard for me to say if you want to go for it. I know you can get the 'mids, settle on the copper, and get 8 chariots out in time but it's probably cutting it close.

    You can feel free to look at my 2500BC spoiler above but I chose to rexx because the land is very favorable. We have the opportunity to get at least 10 cities here with an aggressive rexx/blocking strategy. If the land was less favorable I would have Rushed Brennus. Since I have some time I might put up a 1000BC save later showing what my rush would have looked like.

    That said if you didn't already started researching Mysticism don't try and force SH. Its a nice to have in this scenario but not strictly necessary. That said if you decide to forego SH you should consider the great wall. Its super cheap for us and you can avoid the barbs. I would not go for both though ... we have a lot of workers and settlers to get out.

    And yeah you want to farm FPs. Your economy is going to rest solely on Rep + Scientists/Priests for some time. You can skip pottery for a while here. Cottages are not useless and you will want some around (why build another farm when your city is at happy cap ... work a cottage!) ... but there's no rush right now. You do want writing sooner than later though. Even just 2 scientists under Rep will fuel your early research and eventually 4-8 will handle everything you need for some time. I mean 2 scientists and their library is 15 :science: which lands most early techs in 10-15 turns which is OK on Epic ... specially when we're researching techs the AI rarely researches themselves.
  16. zizzeus

    zizzeus Chieftain

    Aug 4, 2008
    All right, I typically just look at the shadow games to see what other people are doing, but I've lurked long enough on these threads so it's time I joined a game. I'm pretty comfortable on Emperor, and SE is my specialty, so I'll be embarrassed if I can't pull this one off. I've never played Ramesses though, preferring the philosophical leaders and only moving to BTS this fall.

    I'll get around to it Wednesday evening and report then.
  17. djvandrake

    djvandrake Prince

    Feb 7, 2008
    This is a great idea. I'm a struggling Monarch player so I don't know if I'll jump in this one just to save myself the embarassment, but I'll definitely be following along. :goodjob:

    I'm curious as to why you consider SPI a "sinister warmonger trait"? Ease of switching civics? :confused:
  18. mc-red

    mc-red King

    Dec 2, 2007
    Spoiler :

    Thanks for the detailed response. It was that real inbetweeny distance of Brennus that was throwing me. My instinct is always to rex if possible and war later. Kind of why I like the artichoker threads.

  19. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

    Nov 11, 2008
    Hudson, MA
    Basically you have free access to slavery, nationhood, and theocracy whenever you need them ... without really having to give up Caste, Pacifism/FR, and Bureaucracy when you don't. I mean there's incredible power in being able to turn on the war machine and then a few turns later turn it off and never miss a beat technologically is zany.

    Early in life it might be running Police State/Vassalage/Slavery/Theo when cranking out a medieval army for 5-8 turns and then switching back to Rep/Bureaucracy/Caste/Pacism/ when you're done ... while late life you will be simply running nationhood instead of Vassalage. I also like to be able to slip into and out of Mercantilism at will when in mid-game wars because your TR's tend to tank anyhow and those Specialists are lucrative.

    It also allows you to switch religions whenever you want which really helps you initiate dogpiles when you have zealots around.

    I consider the ability to freely get my units +2xp-4xp, produce with a 25% :hammers: boost, be whipped/drafted out on command ... all the while not significantly hurting my economy ... to be one hell of a warmonger trait.

    Also feel free to play along. What's the worst that can happen ... you lose? You don't have to post it up ... lol ... the point here is to get people thinking not to display who has the highest score or quickest win. Even if you are struggling on monarch I think actually going through the turns and seeing what the process is can be very instructive. Honestly we are going to be taking this at a pace I think most people will be able to keep up (maybe a couple hours every 3-4 days). If you dead end or lose just pick up the next save a couple days later and try again.
  20. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

    Jun 18, 2003
    Hidden Underground Volcano Lair
    I am a monarch player. Are you sure this map is random?

    Spoiler :

    Turn 0 – Moving warrior NW to hill to look around. This reveals corn. I am moving the settler 1 E to settle on the river because I want the oasis in my BFC.

    Turn 1 – Settle on the river, this is definitely Upper Egypt. I set the build to a worker and start research on AH. The warrior goes NW to follow the path of the river.

    Turn 2 – 12 Exploring along the river to the north reveals what looks to be a nice sub continent. Buddism pops somewhere in the world on turn 12, that seems fast, a la Spain on a lake.

    Turn 19 – AH is in. Horses show up to the north, how nice. My warrior scout is circling clockwise around and reveals gold to the SE. It sure looks like a sub-continent. But Peter shows up with a wounded scout to the south, there must be more land down there. Research is set to Mysticism.

    Turn 24 – My 1st worker is done. He goes to work on the cows. My city builds a warrior.

    Turn 29 – MYST is done, set to Masonry. My warrior gets in a fight with some jungle cats. He wins and I take the Woodsman I promo and set him to heal in place. Once I get my big return tiles in place, I will set a settler up north to get the horses.

    Turn 34 – My warrior is built, he goes north to claim the land and I start a second warrior. I wont start the expansion until size 3.

    Turn 37 N warrior gets eaten by a lion. Justinian shows up. I give up.

    Turn 38 – S warrior wins his 4th battle vs animals and earns Woodsman II. Now he is a super scout.

    Turn 39 - My worker is finished improving the food tiles, but masonry is 5 turns away so I move him into some woods and start building a road to haul stone. Super Scout is on the move.

    Turn 40 – 3000 BC, Pacal the Buddist shows up from the west. Now I wonder what lies up NE.

    Turn 42 – Second warrior is done and goes North. My city is sitting at size 3. Now is the question, build SH like was suggested or expand first?

    I think I will expand, SH can wait while stone gets hooked up. No sense building it w/out any modifiers in play.

    Turn 51 – Mining is in. The comp says take pottery. I don’t know. I am going Poly and will try for OR.

    Turn 54 – Settler is in. I start on SH. But I need BW and some chops.

    Turn 55 – Willem VO from the west.

    Turn 57 – Second city is in. It takes a barracks.

    Turn 59, someone gets Hindi.

    Turn 62 SH complete. I need more men, barb archers are roaming to the SE.

    Turn 65 – I can get the GW in 9. Why not?

    Turn 67 – Hindi Brennus arrives.

    Turn 69 – Egyptian Gods are powerful, but where is Moses?

    Turn 72 – Safe from Barbs, lets start the mids!

    Turn 80 – 1st War Chariot is ready.

    Turn 88 – Oracle (Kingmaker) is up somewhere.

    Turn 89 – Justinian adopts HR. Told ya!

    Turn 90 – Moses arrives in Memphis! Now what? 6 turns to mids.

    Turn 93 – My WC patrolling to the SW defends against 2 barb archers. Earns +1 visibility as it previously had Flanking I. I am tied for leader with Justinian at 250 points.

    Turn 96 - I got the mids! Now what?

    Scouting is lacking. I have only 1 worker. I don’t even have open borders. I just put 2 priests into Memphis. That city will build my army. I have a GP coming in 5 turns.


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