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Emperor Tutorial Series II - The Fundamental CE (Monarch/Prince players welcome)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by feralminded, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    @Mogur

    Spoiler :

    Your position isn't bad at all but I suspect you only have 30 turns more at max to get liberalism out. If you want Steel you need to get up that line ASAP because you can bet willem is currently beelining it. That said otherwise you look ok although with Willem and Shaka friendly I believe Shaka can DOW on you if you look too weak so you will want to be building yourself some units now. Its ok as you'll need them to support the cannons anyhow.

     
  2. djvandrake

    djvandrake Prince

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    Yep. It's true. I'm a cultural victory hound. 50K for normal speed, 75K for epic and 150K for marathon.
     
  3. miked1991

    miked1991 Warlord

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    Well I won my game fairly convincingly :D Space Race victory in 1902AD, this tutorial must have done some good as I don't win many on Monarch the skill level I usually play on!

    Was worried about Shaka going on in the game as he took out Mansa and then was going at Willem. He didn't seem too tempted to kill off Willem, think he quite liked him, but Pericles with the AP kept putting on votes for wars against him and pretty much everyone was agreeing to them! Finally he took Willem as a vassal and quickly went on to vassalise Monty very quickly. All game long Stalin couldn't make his mind up if he wanted to be Shaka's vassal or not, but whatever case they were good friends.

    Not sure why, but despite being conquered Willem and Monty both seemed to like Shaka quite well (they also both hated me). So come the UN votes, Shaka had votes from Willem, Monty and Stalin... considering he held 44% of the world pop by himself, that was a big slice of the votes. Was about 50 from winning the diplomatic victory each time the vote came up, and in the end I decided to bribe Shaka to war against Stalin so he'd lose Stalin's vote (this was about the time I launched my ship, no worry of a domination win or anything of such for Shaka, and giving a tech up was no worry to start it off).

    I had to work quite hard to keep my military up to a reasonable amount. Once factories came along though I was able to build them with Coal Planets and Levies, and along with the towns giving hammers from US most of my cities were good enough to spam units for the border cities. In the 15 turns it took my ship to travel I built about 30 Modern Armours, so I could probably go on after my victory for easy domination.

    Weaknesses - I never got a proper GP Farm down. Producing the specialists was a pain and so I never got Sids Sushi or Mining Inc built. In the end I took the Oil company and spammed it worldwide as everyone had oil anyway, that got some cash in. And Create Constructions I made with a late engineer but was too late to bother spreading. Along similar lines, I ended up with Wall Street in my capitol only running 2 Merchants. Needed a city more apt with the food etc to make it work better. My military was generally very poor and had I not had such a nice peninsula with just 2 cities to have to defend, I'm sure I would have been attacked if not dogpiled. Got lucky that Willem was my only neighbour and was hurting from Shaka (I believe Shaka was killing Mansa early but Willem took him as a vassal. Shaka continued to kill Musa and then was at war with Willem so carried on).
     
  4. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    Yeah a future tutorial I think will be the "Pit fight to the death" tutorial where you have some nasty neighbors and how to effectively handle them. This was VERY favorable land ... which is fine for a tutorial because again there's more to the game than opening and the late game lessons are just as important as the early ones.
     
  5. miked1991

    miked1991 Warlord

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    Do you mind explaining what some of these "economies" are? I remember reading earlier in the thread you talking about EE's, HE's and TRE's that I can remember. I know EE is espionarge, but the other two I've no idea. Presumably HE is Hybrid, but how a hybrid economy works I've no idea, I thought that was just a city that did everything.

    On conditions. I'd like to see a game played with average or even less than favourable conditions. Because although now I feel confident working a CE when I've got a peninsula I can easily block off, or perhaps even an isolated start, I've no idea what to do in a more "normal" starting position. When I looked at the run-through of that last game at the end, every other civ had a lot less space than us, so knowing how to run a game from one of those points of view would be very helpful!
     
  6. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    HE is hammer economy, EE is espionage, RE is religious economy, TRE is trade route economy, WE or SSE is Wonder/Super specialist economy (although some people consider them separate), PHI-SE is bulb-fest specialist economy.
     
  7. miked1991

    miked1991 Warlord

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    So presumable Hammers is a warmongering approach. PHI-SE is the standard SE getting the specialists, WE is spamming wonders for their GP points. How does a RE work? Surely thats just a cottage but you found an early religion and spread it for the shrine letting you run 100% slider or as close as.
     
  8. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    Control the AP for either a cheese win or just a modest :hammers: boost. Land University of Sankore and Spiral Minarette for modest bumps in :science: and :gold:. Pay for most of your economy from spreading a very early religion and landing the shrine. Bulb through theology to unlock paper crazy early. Its very fast to paper but tends to slow down from there. Its also not recommended on continents maps, mostly a pangea only kind of thing.
     
  9. Mogur

    Mogur Chieftain

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    @Feral

    Spoiler :
    About diplomacy in this game. When exactly will or will not an AI attack. Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that all the AI's on our continent will declare at pleased. Not sure about Perciles or Vicky. But they need boats to reach us anyway. So they are not a problem until at least astronomy right?

    Now in my game I dont have anyone to friendly yet unfortunately. Though Willem shouldnt be a problem once I go into FS. Everyone needs to go through Willem to get to me. Willem has a pissed off Monty in the SW and a pissed off Mansa across his entire E border. I cant imagine he wants to start a war with me and be getting it from all angles. But if my power numbers are low enough will he consider me too juicy and declare even if he has Monty and Mansa to worry about?

    Monty and Mansa pretty much hate me because I stopped caving to demands centuries ago. I figured if they started to beat down Willem I would make an army and help out. But its mostly a stalemate between those 3. Shaka has also been at war with Mansa so he cant reach me either. I figured no way he will DOW on me with Mansa right there.

    Stalin is kind of a concern since he's been back and forth between pleased and cautious toward me. But he doesnt have much land and kind of a non factor in this game. Mostly been ignoring him. Probably a mistake lol. Would he trek through Shaka, Mansa and Willem to get to me? If he does I think I should be able to spot him in time. Quick civic change to Nationhood, Slavery, and Theocracy should be able to fend him off.

    My big question is what happens at Astronomy? Will the AI's on my continent build a navy and sail around the borders blocking them on land? How much does my power numbers play into the equation? For example Shaka. Will he build boats and sail over to me with his hated rival Mansa at home?

    My guess is Im way more vunerable than I think and need to up my defense. I plan to do that regardless next round. Just hoping for a little insight here. Sorry for the long post.
     
  10. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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    @Mogur

    Spoiler :

    I think its safe to say our diplomatic situation is extremely favorable. While I'm not as confident as TMIT in this regard I definitely was fairly lax on my military at certain points. Not completely lax, I always had 5-10 units in my 2 border cities ... but I was not prepared to receive a Shaka SoD. Willem's SoD would have been managable though with what I had. I actually had Stalin DoW on me this game but he sent like 3 units at me so it was worthless.

    The AI does tend to suck at cross ocean attacks but I would still keep 2 good defenders per city on that east coast since that's how Stalin or Shaka would come, if they chose to. Willem can be kept at bay with a decent show of force down south. Vicky/Pericles both suck at war and if they came would likely hit your lower SW cities, one of which will be a willem border anyhow. Your entire northern arc is farily safe. That said Vicky/Pericles DID produce the biggest threat to me late game and DoWed shortly before I finished my rocket. The threat was about 4 transports worth of troops and a fairly impressive number of destroyers and subs. I had a very weak navy and they went for my little island cities. I managed to keep them at bay by spamming battleships and got all by 1 transport sunk. In the end it wasn't much of a threat but had I not been going to space I wouldn't have had that kind of production to spam out big ships like that it might have been a bit more harrowing. Of course I had little to fear once they landed as I had MGs and tanks everywhere but still ... it was a real threat.

    I do not believe anyone will attack THROUGH Willem who isn't pleased with him.
     
  11. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

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    Feral:

    Spoiler :
    Not sure what you mean with east coast, but Shaka and Stalin would NEVER attack with boats on this map. They are on the same landmass, so the code forces them to attack on the ground. And if Will doesn't like them and keeps his border close, they can't do anything.

    I think (not 100% sure) they can start preparing a war anyway, and then stay there when they realize there's no way to reach the target.

     
  12. feralminded

    feralminded Obsessive Number Cruncher

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  13. Mogur

    Mogur Chieftain

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    Spoiler :
    Ok then Willem is the only one who can declare on me. Everyone else needs to cross an unfriendly civ or an ocean to get to me. Do Pericles or Vicky declare at pleased?
     
  14. Ai Shizuka

    Ai Shizuka King

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    Spoiler :
    Vicky's a backstabbing . .. .. .. .. .. I'm pretty sure she is in the lowest tier for peaceprob at pleased. So yes, she can declare.
    Pericles doesn't declare at pleased.

    If some AI is in good terms with Will, they can cross his empire to attack you (open borders with Will is the key here). They tend to prioritize targets with shared borders but if they hate you enough/you are too weak, they can attack you.

    Let's just say you have so screw it up pretty badly on this map to get declared by Shaka, Stalin or Monte.

     

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