Empire building

[TM Moot]

I've won a few games at King and Emperor level, finding it easier to win with only a couple of cities and some puppets.

Civ5 penalises having lots of cities (SP costs go up, unhappiness goes up, NW costs go up, building maintenance goes up, costly roads are required etc..).

But now, i want to build an Empire, by conquest and rexing.

Is this possible in Civ5?

Or, do i need to go back to BtS for my global Empire fix??

 

[Michl2602]

I've won a few games at King and Emperor level, finding it easier to win with only a couple of cities and some puppets.

Civ5 penalises having lots of cities (SP costs go up, unhappiness goes up, NW costs go up, building maintenance goes up, costly roads are required etc..).

But now, i want to build an Empire, by conquest and rexing.

Is this possible in Civ5?

Or, do i need to go back to BtS for my global Empire fix??

I don't know, if it's still possible at King or Emperor, but I know that it is possible at Prince-.

 

[Camikaze]

Yeah, it's most definitely possible. It's just a matter of finding out where your costs/unhappiness is coming from and plugging those specific holes in your strategy.

 

[wcbarney]

I've won a few games at King and Emperor level, finding it easier to win with only a couple of cities and some puppets.

Civ5 penalises having lots of cities (SP costs go up, unhappiness goes up, NW costs go up, building maintenance goes up, costly roads are required etc..).

But now, i want to build an Empire, by conquest and rexing.

Is this possible in Civ5?

Or, do i need to go back to BtS for my global Empire fix??

Very Possible at Emperor level -- I've done it dozens of times. I'm your classic warmonger; I might have only 3-4 core cities that I've built from settlers, but will have the rest of the world as puppets. Go for all the happiness policies. I know that the Piety Tree is synomous with "Happiness Tree," but I don't ever choose the Piety Tree 'cause I prefer the Rationalism tree -- which also has a happiness policy, Humanism, which gives 1 for each university. If I still have some unhappiness, then I will annex one or two of the larger, more productive cities & buy the courthouse & all the happiness buildings.

After you have a dozen or so puppets then your gold problems usually disappear, 'cause the puppets are all defaulted to "Gold Focus." If you still have money problems, then you can select "Gold Focus" in one or more of your core cities. By the time I have a dozen or so puppets I usually am running a substantial gold surplus which, by the end of the game, is as high as 2,500 gpt. Puppets do not add to your Social Policy costs or your building maintenance costs, but they do add to your trade route income once you've built the proper railroads/harbors.

Puppets also generate A LOT of science beakers & culture. In my most recent victory (Washington, Emperor, standard continents map, standard speed), I was generating about 5,000 science beakers per turn (a Future Tech about every other turn), and was 5-6 turns between new policies.

I also ally with every CS on the map -- food for city growth (which increases science), LOTS of science beakers, luxuries, culture.

Once I have my core front-line troops well trained (I prefer bombers & paratroopers), I use all other military units for garrison troops. By mid-game I usually have all my core cities busily producing paratroops, which I've found are the most mobile troops to jump all over the map to use as garrison troops [Honor Tree, Meritocracy, which gives 1 for each garrisoned troop].

-- Cliff in Virginia

 

[eric_]

The policy at the end of Commerce that gives +1 per lux is awesome when you have a huge, sprawling empire with a diverse array of lux resources.

 

[Martin Alvito]

The policy at the end of Commerce that gives +1 per lux is awesome when you have a huge, sprawling empire with a diverse array of lux resources.

But Freedom is just as good, if not better, and you don't have to wade through a pile of bad policies to get there.

The first (third, fifth, seventh, etc.) Freedom specialist gives you +1, and you're running either a pair of Scientists, an Artist or an Engineer when Freedom lands.

 

[TM Moot]

cheers chaps, all good advice

i guess it all gets tricky without puppeting, i don't mind the concept of puppets (would like to have vassals as well though ), but would ideally prefer to have direct control of all my cities

 

[eric_]

Yeah, Martin, I'm just terrible about managing specialists (i.e., using them ). It's definitely something I need to focus on going forward. To get started, last night I pulled off a come-from-behind science victory in part by by employing a bunch of specialists during the last 100 or so turns. IIRC, I did end up popping Freedom (heh, that sounds funny), but it was very late and the end game was a chaotic scramble.

TM - I much prefer to own cities outright, especially from a happiness standpoint. An annexed city + courthouse is less of a drain than a puppet.

Bear in mind that I play mostly on Prince, sometimes on King...not really shooting for high efficiency, just fun and a lot of building.

 

[learner gamer]

Very glad to see this thread – because I’ve been trying to pursue exactly this approach (map permitting) without much success to date at king level.

FWIW, I seem to come unstuck after getting down my first 3-4 cities, primarily because I find that I can’t generate the hammers I want fast enough to build the infrastructure I’d like. At the risk of posing a very general question therefore, does anyone have any tips re: city development (eg. a core set of infrastructure to build) and / or priority techs, if pursuing this approach? And following on from wcbarney’s excellent post (i) how much of a city’s infrastructure gets built as opposed to bought and (ii) how does that vary if (as in my current game) you can’t settle cities with access to happy resources boosted by the market (which would obviously increase the ability to buy units and / or infrastructure)? Last of all, how do the good folks here find that this playstyle dovetails with the much discussed National College opening? Thanks for any and all replies.

 

[eric_]

FWIW, I pursued my first NC opening in my last game, and I expanded like crazy up until probably the Renaissance. I wasn't very focused during the Medieval era (built a LOT of buildings, which I love to do), and was behind Suleiman by around 600 points when I met him in the Renaissance era, including being 3rd in Science. But, my cities were booming, and I managed to kick into science mode fast enough for a come-from-behind victory (science).

My production was somewhat out of control in three of my cities (my 2nd, 3rd, and 5th) due in large part to the presence of 2 - 3 horses, cattle, or combo. These cities, I found, work out quite nicely as production cities, actually, as they're often surrounded by a lot of grassland with the occasional hill and/or forest to take production over the top).

I don't typically start buying a lot of buildings until I'm more or less done with horizontal expansion and pop growth starts to really bust my happiness budget. During expansion waves, I prioritize lux resources. Occasionally I'll buy a Colosseum here or there if I'm pushing up against 10 . Once My economy is going and populations are taking off, I start buying a lot more, and almost exclusively happiness buildings.

For infrastructure build order, I tend to focus on production or commerce, depending on the city, and throw in a food booster here and there if a city is stalling and I have room to grow (+ happiness)/am not currently expanding.

All in all, the NC start had me careening through techs early on, which dovetailed quite well with the rapid settling of stable-driven production centers (i.e., it felt as though tech and production were keeping pace with one another quite nicely). I was definitely maxing out happiness at many points, but kept things under control via a CS alliance and lux trading. If I were a more efficient, careful player (for instance, I plopped a third city while in the middle of building the NC ), I think the synergy would've been even stronger. I also tend to favor fun over efficiency (weird strategies like building buffer colonies on the far side of choke points, building tons of buildings without enough thought about their true benefits, settling a Conquistador simply because I wanted to see it happen , etc), which probably killed my momentum in the middle ages.

As I mentioned above, I play on Prince, although I think I need to move back up to King again (moved down after Nov. patch).

 

[chazzycat]

REX-ing is entirely possible on Emperor. I would take it even further than WCBarney and say that you can found 7-12 cities on your own, not warmonger at all, build peacefully and win the game. I have won a few games like this recently. You're not going to get quite as many policies, but the extra gold/science/production from having more cities can easily counteract that. Honestly, all you need for policies in this type of game is the liberty branch (minus republic) and the first 3 of piety. Anything past theocracy is just gravy. Once you get a lot of riverside cities growing large with the theocracy happiness, everything tends to snowball and you're set up for a science/domination/diplo victory before you even know it.

 

[Tabarnak]

Very glad to see this thread – because I’ve been trying to pursue exactly this approach (map permitting) without much success to date at king level.

FWIW, I seem to come unstuck after getting down my first 3-4 cities, primarily because I find that I can’t generate the hammers I want fast enough to build the infrastructure I’d like.

Try this. Up to immortal, you can use this approach without much difficulties with a good knowledge of RAs and trades.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=415715

There is a little debate to know if it's possible to win without RAs and trades of all sort at Deity. I doubt it can be possible, but with this approach in almost perfect conditions i'm pretty sure it's possible for immortal. It's the principal reason why it's strongly effective in multiplayer games. It can be a kind of personnal challenge that i might shows some day if i'm successful. Unless somebody do this before me...

 

[learner gamer]

@Tabarnak: many thanks for the link - I'll check it out shortly. In the meantime, I've also started a thread to get a little more advice re: the order of early infrastructure builds.

EDIT: I just read through your OP in your link and wished I'd read it before opening my thread because it answers an awful lot of what I was asking. That's brilliant - thank you very much!

EDIT 2: @Tabarnak: Would you mind if I posted your link (with credit to you of course) in the thread I created? I suspect it might help many others with questions re: production.

 

[wcbarney]

The policy at the end of Commerce that gives +1 per lux is awesome when you have a huge, sprawling empire with a diverse array of lux resources.

Amen!

But Freedom is just as good, if not better, and you don't have to wade through a pile of bad policies to get there.

The first (third, fifth, seventh, etc.) Freedom specialist gives you +1, and you're running either a pair of Scientists, an Artist or an Engineer when Freedom lands.

Amen & Amen! And don't forget the Cultural Diplomacy policy in the Patronage Tree (100% more gifts from CS allies, and 50% more from each CS gift).

-- Cliff in Virginia

 

[mentor]

I've won a few games at King and Emperor level, finding it easier to win with only a couple of cities and some puppets.

Civ5 penalises having lots of cities (SP costs go up, unhappiness goes up, NW costs go up, building maintenance goes up, costly roads are required etc..).

But now, i want to build an Empire, by conquest and rexing.

Is this possible in Civ5?

Or, do i need to go back to BtS for my global Empire fix??

It is doable but things have to fall right.

I won at King with acouple nights back with a dozen cities as Persia but there were the occasional happiness crises. The secret was being able to produce a bunch of GP and ally with the CS that had the luxury to keep you out of trouble as well as building those theaters. Eventually it was easier to convert all the puppets, buy the Courthouse and other happiness buildings to keep the income and Culture going.

 

[Unhappy Ood]

Some great ideas from the contributors - thanks

 

[TM Moot]

Thanks everyone, some good advice. I started a game last night, with Darius (just love those Golden Ages ).

TM - I much prefer to own cities outright, especially from a happiness standpoint. An annexed city + courthouse is less of a drain than a puppet.

Is this true on King/Emperor level?

If so, I guess the only downside is the additional cost of SP's?