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Empress Cathy: Help Me Set My Goals!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwaja, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    My thought was that since I am getting a free Great Scientist that can partial bulb Electricity, why not? I could always use more commerce, though in this case, it is probably not all that necessary. I could consider instead going Steam Power --> Steel --> Railroad or Steam Power --> Corporation --> Assembly Line --> Fascism (Okay this is an overkill, just for a free Great General) but this takes too long. Electricity seems like a good stopping point.

    In addition to the free Great Scientist, I will get 2 more soon. I need 2 to fire up the Golden Age this time, and I am very sure that I will get 2 different kinds. If I get a Great Merchant, which most likely will pop from the GP Farm, I may consider firing up another mission for immediate gold, but I like the Golden Age idea better.

    Yakutsk, the GP farm, is not working massive numbers of merchants on purpose, because if I do that, the 2nd Great Person will take a long time to pop.

    Looking at the map again though, it seems like capping Genghis alone will probably not be enough to get a win. I think I may have to war with Cyrus eventually... or just bait one of my existing vassals to fight me, which is probably NOT going to happen, as I just tested it out. I just tried demanding for ALL of the resources on all my vassals and they all accepted.
     
  2. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    You should be able to finish the game with airships + cossacks. Just turn off the slider after physics and pump culture or something. Or build spies and pump espionage on Cyrus in anticipation of city revolts. 0% culture rifles can't defend against airships + cossacks.

    Vassals will rarely pick a fight with its master -- you'd have to be woefully deficient in power for that to happen and they probably wouldn't be your vassal in that situation.
     
  3. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

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    Why bother? Use the physics GS and the St Petersburg GA, for the Golden Age, you don't need any more science. Use the Yakutsk GM to get a bit more rushbuy production.
     
  4. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    I actually like the espionage suggestion. I think I will try that.

    Yeah, I figured as much on the vassal situation. I wish I could have captured more of Liz's cities at least, but I was in a hurry to cap her before Alex did.

    That is another option as well. Gah.. and I've been putting a lot of watermills and windmills in anticipation of this though.... :(
     
  5. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    Both Kremlin and WP are a waste of time and resources. Build cossacks instead. And blimps in your eastern cities. As soon as you're healed, cap Liz. Then go for GK. If you can bribe him on Persia, that'd be OK, although it may be easier to declare on him and wait for him to bring his stack into your territory. It'll be mostly knights and trebs, so you'll slaughter it with cossacks. Then take all of his cities except for the ones bordering Cyrus (for chain-capping Cyrus if you need more land). This game has been won for a while, all you need to finish it up are cossacks. I did it by 1590AD from your 1410AD save - but I bet you can beat it. ;)
     
  6. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Liz is already capped though. ^_^

    Interesting suggestion on baiting Genghis' stack of troops into my territory. Too bad I don't have the Great Wall... otherwise it would have been somewhat of a Great General farming. :)

    I am probably not gonna bother with West Point, seeing that I have to build it with hammers, but if I can get a Military Academy, that would be great. :) As for the Kremlin? Well... I don't know! ^_^

    I doubt I can beat your time of 1590 AD though. I am already at 1525 AD, so this means I have what... 13 more turns? I doubt that I can make it happen. But I am sure that I can wrap it up in the 1600's.
     
  7. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    Don't put the MA in St. Pete - fully workshopped it can easily turn out 1 cossack per turn, so you gain nothing by putting it there. And PLEASE don't build the Kremline there either!
     
  8. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Without even running Police State, St. Pete is already cranking out 1 cossack per turn without any overflows. So I am good. ^_^

    Had it been a game where it might go longer than pure cossack war, I would definitely have put the Military Academy there. But in this game, probably not.

    As for the Kremlin, are you saying that because the rush buy bonus only applies to that city? Or is it because you don't want me to waste time building a wonder in a city that is designed for pure military purposes?

    At any rate, Kremlin is being built in Moscow.
     
  9. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    No, rushbuy bonus applies everywhere. It's because of the 2nd reason. BTW, an MA in your HE city is a waste unless it's really underpowered (and St Pete is definitely not underpowered) due to the additive nature of the bonus - it ends up increasing your military production by 22% instead of 50% (for example, a 40 base :hammers: city with HE + forge gives 125% = 90:hammers:, add an MA and it's 175% = 110:hammers: which is an increase of 20:hammers: over 90:hammers: or 22%.
     
  10. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    You made me see the light. I should know by now about stacking bonuses that give diminishing returns.

    I am gonna try to re-read this entire thread and see where I made tactical mistakes. I definitely don't want to screw up on the ongoing Izzy game or the Sitting Bull game.
     
  11. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Okay, let's see how fast I can wrap this game up!

    At the start of this round, I realized that Liz was 1 turn away from Democracy. This is not going to help me in any way whatsoever. My initial thought was... I don't want to have to deal with Emancipation unhappiness. I was pretty sure that she was gonna run that civic and that's going to make things difficult for me. So I asked her to switch her research towards Chemistry instead.

    Continuing on...

    After the war with Alex was over, I started to regroup my cossack army to the western front bordering Genghis. St. Pete started producing rifles temporarily for garrison duties in newly captured cities, while my workers were busy rearranging tiles in newly captured territories. In a couple of turns, I got my next tech:

    Spoiler :


    And getting Physics granted me another freebie:

    Spoiler :


    And it also popped a resource that I probably will not utilize in this game. Still, the location of it was a bit awkward to say the least:

    Spoiler :


    I thought long and hard about this free Great Scientist. I could certainly save him for another Golden Age, along with another Great Person about to pop in St. Pete. Then I could use a Great Merchant (80% chance) from the GP Farm to run another trade mission and accumulate more gold. But... but... it was just so tempting to get Electricity. I've been putting up a lot of windmills and watermills, and I really wanted to see the effects of these improvements with all the available bonuses to them under State Property. I've never really utilized them much before, so consider this a sort of an experiment, or just an experience to see a part of the game that I have yet to experience. See how much of a newbie I am? ^_^

    So cut me some slack for using the Great Scientist to partial bulb Electricity!

    Pretty slow going for the next few turns as the workers continue to (re)place improvements and cossacks regrouped and healed. With 1 more turn toward Electricity, St. Pete popped its Great Person:

    Spoiler :


    Okay, a Great Artist. Depending on what pops from the GP Farm which is due out to produce a Great Person in 6 turns, I will use him accordingly.

    On Turn 221 at 1555 AD, research slider was turned off completely, as Electricity was finally researched:

    Spoiler :


    Liz finished Chemistry so I directed her to research Military Science. Am I wrong in assuming that more AI that has a specific tech, cheaper it is to trade for it?

    Also on this turn, a couple of my airship did a recon mission in Mongolian territory to fully reveal Genghis' land and his units:

    Spoiler :




    My cossacks were carefully placed so that I can launch an attack on Old Sarai, Turfan, and Borsippa all in 1 turn, probably enough to capture them all. The trick was that most of Genghis' cities were on hills, but that shouldn't matter too much.

    The next turn, Apostolic Palace proposal came up again:

    Spoiler :


    Interesting. I elected for stopping trade with Cyrus. ^_^ That's going to lose me a sugar and a banana from him, but I saw that Alex has his lone sugar available for trade:

    Spoiler :


    This was in anticipation of the proposal passing. I saw that Cyrus was researching Democracy and I didn't want him to start trading it around, spreading the possibility of Emancipation nonsense. Whether this was a good move or not, I will find out soon enough.

    Anyways, it was time to bribe Genghis into war with Cyrus:

    Spoiler :


    The techs I gave him were very safe to trade with him. Better than coughing up Military Tradition and giving him cuirassiers. I would rather deal with his keshiks and knights which will make the fighting much easier. Plan was to wait out a turn or two to let Genghis move his army towards Cyrus, then backstab him while he is busy fighting the Persian. Sounds like a good plan? ^_^

    Well, a turn later, the proposal passed easily:

    Spoiler :


    Actually, Genghis came to me at the start of the turn, asking me to stop deals with him. I knew that the proposal would pass anyway, so I accepted. It really doesn't matter though. At this point, the game is almost about to be wrapped up anyway.

    Also, my espionage points, which I have been concentrating on Cyrus, revealed visibility of his cities:

    Spoiler :


    I am not sure how big that stack of Cyrus is, but it is heading towards Mongolian lands.

    Meanwhile, the Kremlin was finally finished:

    Spoiler :


    I built it for the fun of it, but to be honest, I don't think I will see much use of it. But it is good to see how useful this wonder is. I will try rushbuying some units ^_^

    I waited a couple of turns, just for amusement to see what happens between Cyrus and Genghis. Genghis was rather slow in moving his stack of units to counter Cyrus' stack. I became impatient... too much waiting and this game should be over soon:

    Spoiler :


    Time to die now Genghis! ^_^

    Spoiler :






    The 3 border cities of Genghis Khan was captured all at Turn 0 of the war. My airships bombarded his stack located just outside of his capital. I think once I capture that, he will surely cap to me.

    The following turn, I popped another Great Merchant. ^_^

    Spoiler :


    Well, now that I am running the slider at 0% making ton of gold, I see no point in using him for trade mission. I think it will make much more sense to launch a Golden Age now and swap civics, so that's what I did:

    Spoiler :


    This drastically reduced the research rate, but increased the gold producing rate quite a bit. It really doesn't matter though.

    Shortly before Genghis' capital fell, another Great General popped. This is almost an overkill:

    Spoiler :


    And after wiping out Genghis' main stack filled with siege, keshiks, cuirassiers, and pikemen, I captured his capital:

    Spoiler :


    Combat Log: This doesn't show everything because my game crashed and I had to reload. I make a habit of quick saving at the beginning of each turn, so I didn't have to replay multiple rounds. But basically, his stack that was right outside his capital got totally slaughtered. That totally dropped his power rating down to the floor. There is no way he won't capitulate on the next turn.

    Spoiler :


    Next turn, Cyrus captured Samarqand that's been exchanging hands for god knows how many times:

    Spoiler :


    Genghis wasn't yet ready to come to the peace table, so I had to press on the attack. I captured 1 more of his cities:

    Spoiler :


    And finally on the next turn, Genghis was ready to capitulate:

    Spoiler :


    The bastard delayed my winning time enough so that I can't win this game pre-1600. I could have done that had I not waited a couple of turns before attacking him, but oh well. It really doesn't matter now and I don't feel like going back to get an early time.

    And at exactly Turn 230 at 1600 AD, something happened that totally made me quit playing for the night:

    Spoiler :


    ^_^

    Power Graph:

    I was at the bottom of the pile in power until about 1200's AD. After that, I haven't looked back. Cossacks are simply amazing. I used nothing but cossacks to do my conquest... no siege and no spies. I did use some airships against Genghis but they weren't necessary at all.

    Spoiler :


    Demographics: Wow.. I am actually 1st in soldiers! That doesn't happen too often. ^_^

    Spoiler :


    Info Screen: I didn't even build that many units to be honest. I have seen players with like over 150+ units built for a single type of unit in any given game. I was nowhere near that. I have to give honorary mention for Creative trait here, because the cheap libraries and theatres really helped out in fighting off vassal culture and claiming land as quickly as possible. It's really hand and speeds up the land grabbing toward Domination Victory even faster.

    Spoiler :


    Score: My personal best. I have never gotten over 100k in my entire Civ4 career! If I could, I will buy you guys multiple rounds of beer for this historic event! ^_^

    Spoiler :


    And there we have it. This game is officially wrapped and over.

    I know I could have gotten this game finished at least 2 or 3 turns earlier had I not fiddled around with my thumbs watching Cyrus and Genghis do the fighting before I declared on Genghis.

    At any rate, I have to give a lot of credit to the guys and gals who have chipped in with their advice. I think the suggestions made at 1080 AD save was especially important in getting a leg up and speeding up the war preparation.

    Also I have to feel lucky that I had stone available to build wonders like Pyramids and Oxford much faster, as well as gaining access to marble from Sal the whole game, which enabled me to build marble-enhanced wonders, especially the Parthenon and the Mausoleum of Maussollos which really helped out in my game.

    Finally, I have to give pets on my back for not getting declared the entire game. Cyrus kept Genghis busy the whole game, and Alex was also busy fighting Sal and Hammy as well. I consider myself lucky because I was right in the middle of the continent bordering 4 different AI at one point.

    -----

    I hope that some of you readers have had as much fun as I did with this game. This map is really great, and I think it definitely deserves to be checked out.

    Did I accomplish the goals that I set for myself at the very beginning of this game? I think I did reasonably well, don't you think? At least for my 1st Emperor win.

    Again, many thanks to all the contributors, for helping me out, as well as having the patience to read my extremely long and possibly boring journal that may have gone overboard with too many pictures and details! ^_^
     
  12. huerfanista

    huerfanista Emperor

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    Great game! :goodjob: See ya in the World O' Bull.
     
  13. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    Thanks! :) You've been a great help so far. ^_^
     
  14. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    Nicely played! I have yet to score over 200K yet - so kudos. The map was a joy to play and I think I improved a bit by following your play and reading the great advice others posted in the thread as well. IMHO, the level of detail you gave was the most fun part - very instructive. It's kinda hard to learn without the details. :goodjob:
     
  15. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    I've never gone over 100k in any of my games, so that was a pleasant surprise. I think Cathy will forever be in my heart as one of my favorite. ^_^

    All that writing and pictures were intended for me to view them later to reference, as well as making things a bit easier for other posters to give me some advice. I don't think I did things too well or special, but the help I got was definitely helpful.

    I guess it is time for us to conquer the world with Sitting Bull! ^_^ Thanks for helping out!
     
  16. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    Played this to around 55ad, complete disaster :(
    Spoiler :
    I decided to play this out of my love for Cathy (easily favorite leader).

    I'm pretty sure my game could be showcased as how not to manage diplo.

    Not sure I'll be continuing after I expanded fairly greedily to 6 cities by 550bc, many of which are pushing on the borders of Alex, Hammurabi, and especially Gehngis Khan. I love that you can do this as Cathy, but I also took Buddhism as my religion due to Lizzy spreading it a ton, but now every single AI except Lizzy has gone Hindu(which I don't have in any cities).

    So now Alex and GK attacked me, and Hammy is probably soon to join in as I'm his worst enemy as well. Good times :lol:

    My tech is good, but dealing with 3 extremely close AI at once might not happen.
     
  17. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @TCMIV,

    Spoiler :
    I was rather lucky in my game that I didn't get declared on the whole game. Did you adopt Buddhism right away when Liz spread it to you? That is a no-no, especially if you saw lot of other guys adopting different religion. The moment every one of your neighbors adopted Hinduism, you should have switched out of Buddhism into no religion. Not worth having so many enemies.

    The key is to ensure that Alex and Genghis have other AI as their worst enemies, attracting them to attack those guys instead of you. Hammy and Liz are pretty peaceful AI, so Alex will not like them very much. Same goes for Genghis and Cyrus as well. It helps even more when they adopt different religions as well.
     
  18. TCMIV

    TCMIV Barış Manço

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    ^^
    Spoiler :
    I waited a bit and only Saladin was Hindu, with Alex/Hammy/Liz all Buddhist. I picked it up and a while later Alex and Hammy swapped to Hindu after it spread to GK. :crazyeye: GK went WHEOOHRN immediately and I knew it'd be me, I probably should have switched out to no religion at this point to prevent Alex and others joining in, I can easily handle GK, even though Keshiks are annoying.

    I shouldn't have sided with Liz, she's about the most useless friend you could have for a war :lol:
     
  19. Gwaja

    Gwaja King

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    @TCMIV,

    Spoiler :
    You could have bribed Genghis into not trading with Cyrus or even outright have him declare war on him a bit earlier. That would have helped your cause quite a bit then because it will be very likely that Genghis will have his full attention toward his western neighbor instead.

    You did get a bit unlucky though to have all of those AI switching religions at that point in the game... which is a bit unusual to say the least.

    Liz was probably too weak and too wonder happy to be of any help in your game probably... given the map layout and such. I admit that I got lucky in having both Alex and Genghis having their full attention toward someone else other than me, but part of that has to do with my initial bribes into making them hate their other neighbors.
     
  20. Jester Fool

    Jester Fool Emperor

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    Spoiler :
    That is one area of the game that can really make a difference between winning and losing. The better players really know how to manipulate diplomacy. That is one part of my game that is quite pathetic (but I do know that I have a deficiency...so there is still some hope yet :lol:).
     

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