Empty ships

[Sir Clive]

Apologies if this has been covered before , but couldn't find anything relevant in the search

I've just started a new game , standard size map , random everything.

Settle my capital and then find that I am on an island about big enough for 5 cities .

Set my research so that I could set sail quickly and have now started to discover the world.

I'm sending out lots of empty galleys just so that I can get the lay of the land .

However , if I then find an uninhabited island (and there seem to be a few of them about ) I start to get hacked off that I haven't put a settler in the boat (or at least another unit to explore) - my own stupid fault since I then have to send the boat back to HQ to pick up a unit ands then take it back again.

Now , IRL , it would be
a) impossible to send a sea vessel out without anyone on board
b) stupid to reach land and then not be able to explore the land due to no units to put ashore .

Anyone else think it might be more realistic if every sea unit has to have at least one unit loaded before it sets sail ?

 

[Dearmad]

I don't think it would be more "realistic," or help the game at all. Sorry.

 

[Lyonesse]

Usually, when I set out to look for more land I will put at least a settler and defender on the boat (sometimes a scout), for that "just in case" factor. Especially if I have only a few cities "back home".
You may want to look at how long it takes to build another boat and unit(s), you may be able to build a boat faster than it takes to bring a boat back to your island. This way you aren't wasting the moves to go back and forth with your original boat.

Building another boat also brings to mind (and I read this somewhere on this site but can't remember for the life of me where). You may be able to load your "New" boat and take off...while bringing the "Old" to meet somewhere in the middle. Move "New" boat into the same square as the "Old" boat fist...Move your "land units" from "New" to "Old" then move the "Old" boat, you end up moving them (land units on boats)twice as far....takes lots of planing though.

Hope this made sense.

 

[Sir Clive]

Originally posted by Lyonesse
Usually, when I set out to look for more land I will put at least a settler and defender on the boat (sometimes a scout), for that "just in case" factor. Especially if I have only a few cities "back home".
You may want to look at how long it takes to build another boat and unit(s), you may be able to build a boat faster than it takes to bring a boat back to your island. This way you aren't wasting the moves to go back and forth with your original boat.


Hope this made sense.

Thanks for the info Lyonesse.
I'm not too great at micro - management so I didn't weigh up all the alternatives, but I am on a small island with no (yes NO !!) luxuries so my production is not great and I am therefore a bit reluctant to send out units which may be better served defending my pitiful empire.

Having now played a few more turns since I posted the original question , I think you are right about building more boats on my main island rather than sending the exploratory ones back.

Not sure about the transfer mid-sea though - I think this could be treated as an exploit ?

 

[Sir Clive]

Originally posted by Dearmad
I don't think it would be more "realistic," or help the game at all. Sorry.

Thanks for the reply Dearmed .

I would be interested to know what your concept of 'realistic' was since you put it in quotes.

My view is that if a ship in ancient times were to approach a foreign coast there would be two possible scenarios.

1) The coastline is uninhabited therefore at least one body (be it the Captain , cook , bottle-washer or ship cat ) would be sent ashore to explore

2) The coast would be defended by alien forces and the ship would be attacked and destroyed or have to retreat .

There would surely not be a situation (akin to an unmanned space probe reaching the moon / mars) where a vessel could reach land and it would be impossible for the land reached to be discovered.

I therefore find the behaviour of unmanned galleys 'unrealistic'

 

[jeremiahrounds]

so if this ship had a unit it would take more resources to build naturally and even if it didnt you would want the ability to build it without a unit for less right?

Thats what you have now basically.

The substantial rule change that you might be suggesting is a naval unit would need some sort of ground unit to leave port. Its an interesting rule. Doubt it could be settled on realism though.

Though its worth noting that perhaps all ships should have "Radar" (its just a game mechanic). Simulating that they can put landing parties ashore to scout. A landing party really shouldnt be able to explore a continent so that would fit.

And finally if you do believe that all ships should have radar to simulate that they can land a party on the beach to explore the inward tile then you can do that in editor if you please.

 

[Lyonesse]

I think what we are debating here is the fact that the Galley has NO unit in it.
Lets think real world here....reality is great <cough, cough> Imagine the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria set sail, miraculously making it to the "New World" without even so much as a "Captian" on board, thus we have no one to explore" this strange new land. After all the Galley can't do it.
I think SirClive is trying to say there should be AT LEAST a captain
How you would work this "reality" into the game??? Maybe you need to build the Galley and its "Captain" seperate? Would definately add a reason to hold of on "Seafaring" IMO. LOL But you're right Sir...having a Galley out there....with no one on board does seem a bit odd....Ghost Ship maybe?

 

[Sir Clive]

Originally posted by Lyonesse
I think what we are debating here is the fact that the Galley has NO unit in it.
Lets think real world here....reality is great <cough, cough> Imagine the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria set sail, miraculously making it to the "New World" without even so much as a "Captian" on board, thus we have no one to explore" this strange new land. After all the Galley can't do it.
I think SirClive is trying to say there should be AT LEAST a captain

Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier (and miserably failing to do so) Lyonesse . Thank you for explaining it far more clearly than I did in my original post

 

[Smellincoffee]

I always use a defender from the city that built the galley- or a scout, if I'm expansionist. The town can usually spare it. If not, I use someone else from another town.

 

[Dr Tiny]

If your all alone on your island then dont worry about defence above a token force, the AI is really bad at naval invasions and I doubt there are many barbarians. So you can probably spare some units to go explore with.

If this is archipelago the quicker you colonize other places the better, if this continent map then you need to make contact and get a toe hold on one of the main landmasses quick.

 

[FenrysWulf]

I think that it is understood that your ship has a crew, but they are sailors. What you have to keep in mind is that, for example, a unit of horsemen is actually hundreds of individuals represented by that icon. So when you put a game unit ashore, that represents hundreds or thousands of men. The ship is crewed by a few dozen. so those men can't get out and walk around, because they represent a number too small to exist in the game. They are there, but not in numbers that matter.

 

[Sparrow3]

FenrysWulf is right the galley has a crew. When you approach a foreign coast, you see about one tile inland. I think this represents the limited exploration potential on the ships crew. a land unit loaded on a ship is like marines. Extra fighters not extra crew. I don't think you should be required to board extra crew in order to leave port.

@Sir Clive: I think a change of policy is in order. In future, let none of your galleys leave port without at least one land unit aboard. That's what I do. My recommendation, send two galleys out together. In the first load a spearman and settler and in the second load a spearman and a worker. That way you should be ready for whatever you find. That's the way Columbus would have done it. Wait! That's the way he did.

 

[Turner]

I usually sacrifice settlers and spearmen by trying to get to another continent. Of course, sometimes I can get there without suiciding them. All the better, then.

I echo Sparrow's suggestion, that you put at least a scout on the ship, so you can drop them off and they can explore. Who knows, you might find a better place to settle by the time a settler gets over there.

One tactic you might try is to send out galleys with scouts on them. Or horsemen, whatever. Keep a galley stocked with a settler and a spearman ready in port, or as close as you can get them to that spot without suiciding them. As you're scouting, you can bring your other galley with the settler/spearman combo over, and cut down on the trip by half. If you're not suiciding them, you can have them follow later. . . but I wouldn't drop off a scout and use the same boat to go fetch a settler/defender. It's cheaper in the long run to make another galley and send it on.

 

[Sir Clive]

Thanks for the suggestions all .

Seems I am not having much luck here.

With my empty Galleys I managed to reach 3 islands, all of which now have the empty Galleys parked outside them ready for further exploration when the settlers arrive


However having now made about 5 voyages with Galleys loaded with settlers . scouts and military EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS SUNK

I am Roman (red) and the islands are marked with red crosses (hope this works - first time I have ever tried to attach an image) .

Guess I am going to have to wait until I get Magnetism and can build Galleons . However I guess by that time the AI will have grabbed the land

 

[jeremiahrounds]

i swear the closer you are to actually getting somewhere the higher the chance you sink.

Ive had ships sail for turns at sea with nothing around them. But other ones cant seem to take one turn at sea of the next is land on the other side

 

[Atotarho]

The worst is when you sail for 9 tiles accross an ocean Ok and you stop one tile short of safety, chances of sinking are 140.6%.

 

[Sarevok]

the old warships should, because you can have those classics battles where they connect ships and just brawl it out.