Engineers bridging over water

[KnightTemp]

I seem to remember somewhere reading about a 'trick' where settlers/engineers could build roads on the ocean, by boarding a boat, being activated, and given the 'road build' command.

Sadly, on my version, that doesn't happen! Does anyone know the version where it does, please?

I think, actually, it's quite good for engineers at least to be allowed this command - after all, modern engineers bridge or tunnel across wide stretches of water, so it would be quite realistic! Does anyone know how one could alter the rules.txt to allow engineers to do this, please?

Many thanks

 

[SCG]

I seem to remember somewhere reading about a 'trick' where settlers/engineers could build roads on the ocean, by boarding a boat, being activated, and given the 'road build' command.

Sadly, on my version, that doesn't happen! Does anyone know the version where it does, please?

you may be confusing civ1 with civ2 - you can build tons of roads and railroads on the ocean in civ1 by having settlers board ships and tell them to road the space.

I think, actually, it's quite good for engineers at least to be allowed this command - after all, modern engineers bridge or tunnel across wide stretches of water, so it would be quite realistic! Does anyone know how one could alter the rules.txt to allow engineers to do this, please?
Many thanks

probably a question better asked in the scenarion creation forum. however, about 3/4s of the way through the rules.txt, there is a section on terrain (between units and goverments). as to how to make roads on the ocean, the only thing i could think to do would be to modify the terraform rules, maybe to make terraform swamp to ocean (instead of plains) and change ocean from no to swamp, so that you could road the swamp, and then change it back to ocean.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

you may be confusing civ1 with civ2 - you can build tons of roads and railroads on the ocean in civ1 by having settlers board ships and tell them to road the space.

Indeed that was the case in Civ1. However those roads could not be travelled. They only bestowed bonuses. For example you could railroad fish to increase its food production.

 

[Ace]

In the earliest version of Civ2, the road on water trick was supposed to work, too. However, later versions eliminated that feature.

 

[KnightTemp]

... about 3/4s of the way through the rules.txt, there is a section on terrain (between units and goverments). as to how to make roads on the ocean, the only thing i could think to do would be to modify the terraform rules, maybe to make terraform swamp to ocean (instead of plains) and change ocean from no to swamp, so that you could road the swamp, and then change it back to ocean.

Good idea, and tried it - thank you!
Unfortunately, while the order showed up in the orders menu, got the 'That function cannot be performed here' when I ordered the engineer (both through the menu and through keying it in)

 

[SCG]

Good idea, and tried it - thank you!
Unfortunately, while the order showed up in the orders menu, got the 'That function cannot be performed here' when I ordered the engineer (both through the menu and through keying it in)

I know it is able to be modified to do it, just not sure what other steps may be needed. I found an old email that i had sent myself from june, 2000 that had the key modifications to the rules.txt. someone had posted the process. However, i was unable to find the thread itself (or a similar one) archived. I guess when i emailed it to myself, i thought the other part was self-evident

what i do have is
Swamp, 2,3, 1,0,0, Grs, 0,15, 6, Oce, 0,15, 0, Pln, ; Swa
Ocean, 1,2, 1,0,2, no, 0, 0, 0, no, 0, 0, 0, Swa, ; Oce

I'm sure someone in the scenario creation forums has done something like that at some point. I may try and test it out over the weekend to see if i can get it to work. One thing that i'm wondering now is what happens to the ship when the engineer turns ocean to land, and visa versa for the engineer when turned from land to water.

 

[KnightTemp]

One thing that i'm wondering now is what happens to the ship when the engineer turns ocean to land, and visa versa for the engineer when turned from land to water.

I do know the answer to that bit - when ready to move, the ship icon flashes as normal, but on the land square (looks a bit bizarre!), exactly the same as when in port. Can move to an adjacent ocean square with no problems.

Thanks for the rest of the info - do post again when you've finished your researches! Thanks again.

 

[SCG]

well, going from swamp to ocean works, so if you want to railroad the swamp, you can convert that to ocean with railroad.

Looks like to allow the terraform the other way, it would require a bit more, which would be the domain of the scenario creation forum and/or legal experts, depending on which file is involved.

 

[Ace]

I do know the answer to that bit - when ready to move, the ship icon flashes as normal, but on the land square (looks a bit bizarre!), exactly the same as when in port. Can move to an adjacent ocean square with no problems..

Correct. I have seen this happen a couple of times when a ship is in a size one port city (not its homeport) and the city is wiped out. The ship does look really strange setting on dry land. As to the reverse, units on a ship, at sea, that has its homeport destroyed, are lost with the ship.

 

[Peaster]

As to the reverse, units on a ship, at sea, that has its homeport destroyed, are lost with the ship.

This is correct in regular CIV2, but I played a PBEM once in which it didn't happen. There were merchants (eg caravans) floating around all over the ocean! We had to ask the owners to disband them. Not sure what caused this bug, but that PBEM was played in a scenario, in which every tile was invisibly fortified from the start, even ocean tiles.

Another scenario of interest is "Underdark" (fantasy). IIRC it includes some flying creature which can terraform ocean to plains - not sure if that was reversible.

 

[KnightTemp]

Correct. I have seen this happen a couple of times when a ship is in a size one port city (not its homeport) and the city is wiped out. The ship does look really strange setting on dry land.

This particular example is interesting, Ace - when attacking a city, I'm used to ships in that city forming part of the defence, and an alert coming up 'ship caught in port!' or something similar. I've always found it annoying, because it takes one more attack turn, which can make the difference between taking the city that year or not. Your example suggests that in some way the ship is not included in the defence force?

 

[SCG]

Your example suggests that in some way the ship is not included in the defence force?

simplest example would be having more units than city points in your city. say you have three ships defending a size 1 city, you would have 2 ships left over after if the defender fails and no city.

 

[EdwardTking]

you may be confusing civ1 with civ2 - you can build tons of roads and railroads on the ocean in civ1 by having settlers board ships and tell them to road the space.

With Civ1 you could build a fort in an ocean square too for your battleship.

 

[Ace]

This particular example is interesting, Ace - when attacking a city, I'm used to ships in that city forming part of the defence, and an alert coming up 'ship caught in port!' or something similar. I've always found it annoying, because it takes one more attack turn, which can make the difference between taking the city that year or not. Your example suggests that in some way the ship is not included in the defence force?

SCG figured it out. In my example, it was implied that the city had more defenders than citizens. Too be specific, a size one city with a fortified phalanx and a "visiting" ship. When the city is attacked and the phalanx loses, the city is destroyed, but the ship remains, sailing on dry land.

You are correct in that ships defending in a port will give that message if the ship is the defender for the attack and it is unusual that a ship gets caught in a size one city that is wiped out, but it does happen.

 

[timerover51]

well, going from swamp to ocean works, so if you want to railroad the swamp, you can convert that to ocean with railroad.

Looks like to allow the terraform the other way, it would require a bit more, which would be the domain of the scenario creation forum and/or legal experts, depending on which file is involved.

Does anyone know if this will work in Civ3? I have the Civilizations Chronicles, and think that I need to load Civ2, and play with it a bit. From reading the boards, it sounds like it would be fun.

 

[Anithraldur]

SCG figured it out. In my example, it was implied that the city had more defenders than citizens. Too be specific, a size one city with a fortified phalanx and a "visiting" ship. When the city is attacked and the phalanx loses, the city is destroyed, but the ship remains, sailing on dry land.

I think it would be incredible if someone managed to legitimately "kite" a battleship by this method inland to a completely different city. Shouldn't the ship also remain if it belongs to another city, and the one it is in gets destroyed or disbanded?