England - Victoria Thread

It's pretty silly that Firaxis is more than happy to "balkanize" European civs to make them all special snowflakes while mostly letting the rest of the world fall under umbrellas.

Yeah this.

I'm positive there's a bigger culture difference between the Mughals and Vijayanagara than there is between England and Celts but there you go.
 
In England, I was taught:

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are all countries (= 4 countries).

Britain = England + Scotland

Great Britain = England + Scotland + Wales

United Kingdom = England + Scotland + Wales + N. Ireland is an Empire/ Union of four countries.

BTW I can see Scotland becoming fully independent (and joining the EU) very soon. I don't know what would happen to the definitions then.

I think the definition of "civilization" is up for grabs; it's argued about a lot on here.

This is very helpful! Thanks :goodjob:
 
Good indicator of civilization is how many people speak your language. <ontopic>Like how we're speaking English right now</ontopic>

America is an subset of English civilization but has become a melting pot because it's good for business.
 
It's not that confusing.

Imagine for a moment that the European Union becomes a unified federal country (and it's actually not that implausible as mid-term scenarios go...), with one president ruling over the 27 countries.

Spain would then cease to be a country in its own right, wouldn't it? But it would still retain its culture and history -- its civilization, if you will. In other words, there would still be a distinct Spanish culture, different from the French culture and the Italian culture, even though they all would be simple regions ruled by Germany one elected president.

On the other hand, would you say the mix of cultures and peoples that that "United States of Europe" would comprehend are part of the same civilization? (you can argue that they're all part of the Western civilization, but then you're entering another level of comparison).

What Felis is saying (as I interpret it) is that England is a different civilization -- as in, represents a different culture, people, and history -- than Scotland. The United Kingdom is a nation-state that unifies those different civilizations under the same rule.

if all that happens, it would be surprising to have the "leader" of the European States representing the civilization of the country he was born in, rather than the European Union, right?

That is what makes Victoria as a leader for England somewhat confusing to me.
 
if all that happens, it would be surprising to have the "leader" of the European States representing the civilization of the country he was born in, rather than the European Union, right?

That is what makes Victoria as a leader for England somewhat confusing to me.

She was the leader of the preeminent English-speaking civilization at the time, centred on the English capital of London.

United This and United That, This Union and That Union are a lot less fun to say than America, England, Germany and Russia. Sadly, I view Civilization as primarily an entertainment product and if it get too pedantic than it fails at that.
 
She was the leader of the preeminent English-speaking civilization at the time, centred on the English capital of London.

United This and United That, This Union and That Union are a lot less fun to say than America, England, Germany and Russia. Sadly, I view Civilization as primarily an entertainment product and if it get too pedantic than it fails at that.

Fair enough
 
if all that happens, it would be surprising to have the "leader" of the European States representing the civilization of the country he was born in, rather than the European Union, right?

That is what makes Victoria as a leader for England somewhat confusing to me.

It wouldn't surprise me. I'd find it more surprising if that the first President of the United States of Europe was German, and was chosen as the leader of Spain in a civ game. But if the first President of the Unites States of Europe was German and was chosen as the German leader? No, I wouldn't care - they must have been an impressive German.

Further, we're talking about a Franchise that includes the American civilization that's ruled by the people that conquered the actual "American" civilization. I don't think they're trying to score points for accuracy. :rolleyes:
 
if all that happens, it would be surprising to have the "leader" of the European States representing the civilization of the country he was born in, rather than the European Union, right?

That is what makes Victoria as a leader for England somewhat confusing to me.
Maybe surprising, maybe not. I think it would somewhat depend on the power structure of the supposed European States (did one nation's culture win over the others in some way?) and specifics of the leader in question. It's a weird question because it'd have to be hundreds of years before the issue ever came up.

It's easier to think about past civilizations in or out of game. In game, Stalin was the leader of Russia multiple times. (Ignoring the fact that people dislike him as a civ leader for other reasons,) I've heard some people being against Stalin because he wasn't a Russian ruler, but other people want him as a leader and don't seem to care that he wasn't technically the ruler of Russia as a nation. I'm not in favor of Stalin being a leader at all, but if he were, I'd still prefer a Russia civ vs a USSR civ because I'd want the civ to represent pre-USSR Russia, too, even if just in name and not with uniques.
 
It's not that confusing.

Imagine for a moment that the European Union becomes a unified federal country (and it's actually not that implausible as mid-term scenarios go...), with one president ruling over the 27 countries.

Spain would then cease to be a country in its own right, wouldn't it? But it would still retain its culture and history -- its civilization, if you will. In other words, there would still be a distinct Spanish culture, different from the French culture and the Italian culture, even though they all would be simple regions ruled by Germany one elected president.

On the other hand, would you say the mix of cultures and peoples that that "United States of Europe" would comprehend are part of the same civilization? (you can argue that they're all part of the Western civilization, but then you're entering another level of comparison).

What Felis is saying (as I interpret it) is that England is a different civilization -- as in, represents a different culture, people, and history -- than Scotland. The United Kingdom is a nation-state that unifies those different civilizations under the same rule.

Yup, that's what I meant.
 
I hope the Vicky A.I. is active in colonizing other continents. Actually pretty much all civs should be more active in this than iin Civ 5.

Also hope that A.I. again makes proper armada action into far corners of the world, Civ 5 naval A.I. was actually less active than Civ 4.
 
if all that happens, it would be surprising to have the "leader" of the European States representing the civilization of the country he was born in, rather than the European Union, right?

That is what makes Victoria as a leader for England somewhat confusing to me.

However what if France and southern Europe collapse economically from 2050-2150, The European Union becomes a true federal state in the 2300s, but 50% of its population is in what is currently Germany. (most of the Nordic States became part of the Germanic Trade Association in the early 2200s, so up to 75% of the New EUs population could be described as "German" in the 2300s)

-Americans, Jinese and Patagonians in 2500 still often refer to the EU as "Germany"
-German is the dominant and official language spoken by the EU (there are regional official languages)
-Germany doesn't have any single government besides the EU (the EU and regional governments are all that there is in Germany)

for Civ C (released in 2496)... if they chose the EU president of 2406-2443 (who allied with Canada to partition Russia and Arctic Oceania) they Could have that Civ lead the "German" civilization.
 
I hope the Vicky A.I. is active in colonizing other continents. Actually pretty much all civs should be more active in this than iin Civ 5.

Also hope that A.I. again makes proper armada action into far corners of the world, Civ 5 naval A.I. was actually less active than Civ 4.

Even if the AI is not competent at colonizing other continents, I think we can at least assume that they are supposed to be, and may be patched into doing so.

The named continents, and the fact that the two civs we know most about have abilities that specifically mention continents leads me to believe that.
 
I hope the Vicky A.I. is active in colonizing other continents. Actually pretty much all civs should be more active in this than iin Civ 5.

Then it might actually be fun to play on a Terra map (assuming it's included in Civ 6).
 
Then it might actually be fun to play on a Terra map (assuming it's included in Civ 6).

Yes, England might even be overpowered on a Terra map. They can interfere more with others' navies, have innate combat bonuses on foreign shores that make it easier for them to take cities and hard to dislodge their footholds, and they benefit more from overseas possessions.
 
The "bully bonus" will please the PolyCast team :)
:lol:

Still waiting to learn what that really means in practice, and whether that measures up to City State bullying in CivV, but it's a... step in the right direction. :D
 
So what the Queen's agenda? A capital on each continent?

Too close to our colony! Redcoat carpet of doom?

Forward settle EVERYWHERE!!!
 
I hope the Vicky A.I. is active in colonizing other continents. Actually pretty much all civs should be more active in this than iin Civ 5.

Also hope that A.I. again makes proper armada action into far corners of the world, Civ 5 naval A.I. was actually less active than Civ 4.

Agree. The AI in Civ 5 just wasn't adventurous enough. Or just stupid. Silly little isolated towns miles away from their own continent just because there was room to build there and a luxury nearby. I used to love getting massive surprise amphibious invasions by the AI on Civ 4 - it didn't happen often but when it did it was dramatic! I had to quit one game with Napoleon doing this. It just hasn't happened on Civ V. I still would never go back to Civ 4 after Civ V in its current state though.
 
That looks nothing like her! She was a tough old bird, built like an ox.

Believe it or not, she was once young too. Crowned as an 18-year-old in fact.

Spoiler :

 
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