England - Victoria Thread

Love the bayonet and riflebutt animation on the Redcoats.

Ruler: Victoria

UA: British Museum: Museums grant more Archeaologists and have more slots

UU: Seadogs: bully bonus and capture enemy vessels

UU: Redcoats: combat bonus on other continents, can disembark w/o spending movement points

UB (district): Royal Navy Dockyard: bonus movement in naval vessels built there, bonus gold when on other continents, and bonus Great Admiral points

Not sure which part of that is the Victoria Leader bonus

England in Civ5 was an early favorite. Struggling with a certain difficulty level ? Roll with England and wreak havoc with Longbows and SoL.


This iteration seems a little underwhelming....

Trade off spies for Achealogists. Thats fine. Suppose it gives you another win option, though it seems pretty weak on the surface. Works well with the other themes in terms of exploring other lands, but seems rather under powered.


Seadogs, redcoats, and dockyard all have a lean to exploration, though the movement bonus being limited to the RND is a bit of a bummer. Suppose a lot depends on the strength of the UU's as right now we're looking at an England with Beserkers and Sea Beggars.

Overall coming from such hugely overpowering Longbow and SoL combination this seems a little underwhelming.
 
I think we still miss Victoria's Unique bonus, The British museum is the England bonus according to the video.
 
What troubles me about the England video is how it reveals how inflexible the civs in Civ VI are.

England is tailored for domination or culture. But the only bonuses toward domination victory are in their units (who may end up being obsolete by the time you have enough of them, as in Civ V). There's nothing reflecting English finance or spies (though admittedly Elizabeth I would be a better leader to have a spy bonus). I feel like the civs so far seem more like one trick ponies (als Civ V) than I had initially hoped.

When I heard civs would get more bonuses than those in Civ V, I expected these bonuses would be somewhat more meaningful. Even in Civ IV you had bonuses that shifted the way you played the game in subtle but lasting ways (Philosophical led to Great People farms, Finance led to a cottage economy, Korea lent a science bonus).

But here we simply have short lived bonuses. The British Museum bonus won't kick in until the modern era in earnest, simply because that is when tourism will trigger (if the cultural victory remains the same basic idea as that in Civ V).

An alternate, more intriguing way to build civs would involve giving them different starting techs (which I hope is back, but I doubt it is as we have seen nothing about that so far). Though it seems a meaningless change, it can alter a player's path or open new, tempting options that are unavailable to other civs. Here the Civ VI Civ bonuses are about as nuanced as an overlooked potato.

I hope I'm proved wrong, but so far it seems these civs are simply Civ V civs with more stuff, not more interesting bonuses that shape a long-term strategy.
 
I think they look like a lot of fun. It'll be good to have an imperially minded, culture thieving England in the game. I am gonna miss the Longbows, however. :sad: Honestly, with the bonuses of the Dockyard, England doesn't need a naval unique unit as well. NBD

I don't get why they keep doing the England thing instead of Britain. A British civ, Dublin city state, and later Gaulish civ seems like the best way to go IMO. But, it's always easy to mod such things without any original assets.

There's nothing reflecting English finance or spies (though admittedly Elizabeth I would be a better leader to have a spy bonus).
The dockyard gold bonus reflects England's financial side enough, I think. As for the espionage, I never understood why that was shoehorned to England. Frankly, an espionage bonus should go to Russia. But espionage is always a dull mechanic in 4X games and never worth the effort.
 
I don't know if that is true - England does get some financial bonus in the shipyards. I'm not sure if we have enough information on victory conditions to judge how viable they will be for different civs.

Also, for really powerful or long lasting civs - England, Rome, China, etc. - it is really difficult to find just a few things to build bonuses off of. England was basically the best at everything during the height of their empire, and good at a lot of different stuff both before and after that point. I think choosing a few traits to emphasize (here they at least have done a good job with emphasizing England during Victoria's reign) makes sense and is basically inevitable.
 
Frankly, one-trick ponies don't bother me so long as all the ponies don't have the same trick. You don't like to play the way one civ plays, pick one you do like. I like the idea of playing as the Ottomans, but I don't like the way they were in Civ V, so I usually didn't play them. I liked the idea of playing Spain in Civ IV, but I didn't enjoy it, so I didn't play them then. But I did in Civ V. Sweden and Venice are some of my favorites because their uniques push you into a completely different play style.

England seems mostly Domination with some economic and some cultural capability thrown in. America seems mostly Cultural with a little who knows what the heck is going on with Founding Fathers.
 
I don't get why they keep doing the England thing instead of Britain. A British civ, Dublin city state, and later Gaulish civ seems like the best way to go IMO. But, it's always easy to mod such things without any original assets.

I agree. For heaven's sake, do not foist Bouddica on us again. :cringe: It's high time Vercingetorix make his appearance. :king:
 
I agree. For heaven's sake, do not foist Bouddica on us again. :cringe: It's high time Vercingetorix make his appearance. :king:

Yes please! :D
 
Frankly, one-trick ponies don't bother me so long as all the ponies don't have the same trick. You don't like to play the way one civ plays, pick one you do like. I like the idea of playing as the Ottomans, but I don't like the way they were in Civ V, so I usually didn't play them. I liked the idea of playing Spain in Civ IV, but I didn't enjoy it, so I didn't play them then. But I did in Civ V. Sweden and Venice are some of my favorites because their uniques push you into a completely different play style.

England seems mostly Domination with some economic and some cultural capability thrown in. America seems mostly Cultural with a little who knows what the heck is going on with Founding Fathers.

I agree that Venice was fun to play. They weren't one trick ponies so much since they could win most ways (except domination I would argue), and their bonuses and detriments were unique enough to make up for any shortfalls elsewhere (in multiplayer, where they are easy to eliminate).

I note that the shipyard district has a gold bonus but it's pretty much only useful in maps with a bit more water. The English here as in Civ V are very sea-reliant and that makes them a one trick pony that is inflexible with little uniqueness separating them from other civs--mostly because all their no see rest on short lived unique units who will barely make an impact. Unless they retain bonuses when upgraded like the Maori of Civ V retaining their ability to reduce enemy strength even when upgraded into more advanced infantry.
 
I agree that Venice was fun to play. They weren't one trick ponies so much since they could win most ways (except domination I would argue), and their bonuses and detriments were unique enough to make up for any shortfalls elsewhere (in multiplayer, where they are easy to eliminate).

I note that the shipyard district has a gold bonus but it's pretty much only useful in maps with a bit more water. The English here as in Civ V are very sea-reliant and that makes them a one trick pony that is inflexible with little uniqueness separating them from other civs--mostly because all their no see rest on short lived unique units who will barely make an impact. Unless they retain bonuses when upgraded like the Maori of Civ V retaining their ability to reduce enemy strength even when upgraded into more advanced infantry.

Those Great Admiral points might be a more substantial trick than one might think since Great People have unique individual bonuses. In the Vox Populi mod Great Admirals can connect luxury resources that are not currently in the game.
 
I agree that Venice was fun to play. They weren't one trick ponies so much since they could win most ways (except domination I would argue), and their bonuses and detriments were unique enough to make up for any shortfalls elsewhere (in multiplayer, where they are easy to eliminate).

I note that the shipyard district has a gold bonus but it's pretty much only useful in maps with a bit more water. The English here as in Civ V are very sea-reliant and that makes them a one trick pony that is inflexible with little uniqueness separating them from other civs--mostly because all their no see rest on short lived unique units who will barely make an impact. Unless they retain bonuses when upgraded like the Maori of Civ V retaining their ability to reduce enemy strength even when upgraded into more advanced infantry.

Extra archaeologists and slots are useful any type of map.
 
Great Admirals are likely nigh useless in a land map.

Archaeologists would be the only real English bonus on a land map.

Redcoats, Shipyard districts and the unique ships all rely on water maps for most/all their bonuses.

That's problematic.
 
Great Admirals are likely nigh useless in a land map.

Archaeologists would be the only real English bonus on a land map.

Redcoats, Shipyard districts and the unique ships all rely on water maps for most/all their bonuses.

That's problematic.

Well, keep calm and carry on then :D.
 
We know nothing about Greece in Civ VI and the problems the previous poster identified show how Greece fit into the one pony trick category of most Civ V civs.

The game design needs to account for civs that rely too heavily on water. Otherwise we will once again have an England that is played more by the AI than by any humans (regardless of any rightful issues with the name of the Civ as England).
 
We know nothing about Greece in Civ VI and the problems the previous poster identified show how Greece fit into the one pony trick category of most Civ V civs.

The game design needs to account for civs that rely too heavily on water. Otherwise we will once again have an England that is played more by the AI than by any humans (regardless of any rightful issues with the name of the Civ as England).

Even a pangea map has some water, and as long as the pangea is formed from different continents I don't really see it being too much of an issue. I assume Redcoats will still be effective in terrain with lots of rivers, and even when conquest via ocean isn't easy (most cities inland), the Shipyard will still give them a good economic boost. It sounds like England could play peacefully and be a strong cultural/economic civ.

Plus, who knows how any of these systems work? England seems incentivized to spread to different parts of the world... maybe this will give them a lot of diplomatic knowledge/capital/intrigue or whatever they are calling it. Just like the actual Victorian Era, England in Civ VI could have their fingers in nearly every pie.
 
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