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Enhanced Naval Warfare for Vox Populi

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by Asterix Rage, Nov 22, 2017.

  1. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Do you plan to incorporate this into VP?
     
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  2. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    We need update, dreadnaughts now has only range of 1 :(
     
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  3. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Here is the path you need to run ENW(v1.5) with VP(7-15) and above

    Changes :
    - UNIT_DREADNOUGHT and UNIT_MISSILE_CRUISER get range=2
    - Remove obsolete promotion

    Installation :
    - Extract the file "patch_ENW1.5_00.7z"
    - "Copy and replace" the content in \MODS\Enhanced Naval Warfare for Vox Populi (v 1.5)
    - Play again
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    For now there are small incompatibility between ENW and MUCfVP. For example Yamato should replace earlier Dreadnaught instead of Battleship (@pineappledan ?). How to add dependency line in mod like:
    Code:
    if you have ENW anabled then use that line in sql
    I would like to merge also EE compatibility patch that way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  5. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    @adan_eslavo, JFYI, historically, Yamato was a WWII battleship, not a dreadnought.

    But gameplay trumps realism, so it's fine if it makes sense in the game.
     
  6. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    I met loosing the realism many times in the game. I will work on it soon.
     
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  8. adan_eslavo

    adan_eslavo Archmage of all Pixels Supporter

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    Ok, I analysed that. It is available earlier in Rocketry so ok. I only increased CP to 50 (+5 from Battleship in ENW). Rest is ok: +15 RCP, +1 Range, +200 Production, +1 move etc.
     
  9. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Dear All
    I have posted a new version, see details below.

    Version 1.6
    - Changed: Dreadnought and Missile Cruiser have Range 2 back again. Removed an obsolete promotion.
    - Added: A Lua script that prevents Carriers to be upgraded into Supercarriers if the player has reached the limit. Warning! It will start working with the next version of VP as it requires a bugfix in the core DLL. Edit. More details in GitHub
    - Fixed: Description for Supercarrier.
    - Changed: There are 4 new icons, courtesy of @Asterix Rage
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  10. Revolutionist_8

    Revolutionist_8 Prince

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    Maybe dumb question, but is this compatible with Enlightenment Era for VP? Since that also adds some naval ships.
     
  11. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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  12. ryanmusante

    ryanmusante Regular Supporter

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    Hello, Infixo! Good to see you again :hug:
     
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  13. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    Hi @Infixo,

    I am happy that you are back and that I can thank you for this great mod. It has been almost a year since I first tried it, but I can only provide some feedback now. My time is limited and I like epic huge maps, so my games take weeks and I had some bad luck in the beginning - first, my hard drive died (just when I was reaching your new units), then I lost another game to AI in medieval. Now I finally finished 2 full games and I would like to propose some changes:

    1) The size of some of the units:

    - I think the size of some of the ships is a bit off. The biggest offender is the WWI destroyer. It looks like a needle when you park it next to a frigate (also, the ship model is quite nice, so why not let it show itself a bit more). I suggest the following values for the ships:

    Spoiler :

    Code:
    UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Scale = 0.095 WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_EARLY_DESTROYER';
    UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Scale = 0.105 WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_DESTROYER';
    UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Scale = 0.115 WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_BATTLESHIP';
    UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Scale = 0.099 WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_DREADNOUGHT';


    2) The extra weapon firing effects:

    - I love the missiles flying from the modern ships. So I was thinking - would it be possible to add the effect of torpedoes to the destroyers? You could use the animation currently assigned to the submarines and add it to the gunfire of the destroyers. I think it is not a big deal that the destroyers would be also firing torpedoes when attacking the cities.

    3) The ship model/texture for the missile cruiser:

    - I know you have not created the models by yourself and that there are only a few models of the modern warships available, but the texture of the Kirov missile cruise looks so ... flat and unappealing. I played in Photoshop with the DDS file and I think it will look much better like this (I know it is not very realistic):

    Spoiler :


    4) The ship model/texture for the WWII destroyer:

    - You are using the model of the Z-class, which looks a bit blocky and again the texture is not very appealing. I changed it to the Fletcher class (it is also from Danrell) and I updated the DDS texture with a post-Guadalcanal camouflage (maybe the colors are a bit too bright ad I should tone them down a bit?). I think it looks better - especially when next to the battleship:

    Spoiler :


    5) The position of the WWI destroyer in the tech tree:

    - In my games, I typically research the WWI destroyer before the ironclad, which means that I cannot upgrade my corvettes until I get the ironclads.

    6) Resource prerequisite of the submarine:

    - You can research submarine before oil. Is it intended? Shouldn't the submarine be following after the research of oil? I know it may be difficult to shuffle the things around to make the puzzle whole.

    7) The strength of submarines:

    - I do not remember how subs fare in the vanilla VP, but aren't they a bit too weak (all of them)? It takes 3-4 promoted subs to sink a cruiser.

    8) The models for the corvette and frigate too similar:

    - This is rather a vanilla-VP problem, but I am a bit annoyed about how similar the corvette and frigate look. So I changed the model of the frigate to the English ship of the line (and increased the size of the English UU a bit, so that they do not look exactly the same) and now I can sleep well again at night. What do you think?

    Spoiler The graphics :


    Spoiler The code: :

    Code:
    UPDATE Units SET UnitArtInfo = "ART_DEF_UNIT_U_ENGLISH_SHIPOFTHELINE" WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_FRIGATE';
    UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Model = 'U_English_ShipOfTheLine.fxsxml' WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_FRIGATE';
    UPDATE ArtDefine_UnitMemberInfos SET Scale = 0.12 WHERE Type = 'ART_DEF_UNIT_MEMBER_FRIGATE';



    If you would like to use any of the textures, I will be happy to send you the DDS files.
     
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  14. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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  15. Tonas1997

    Tonas1997 Chieftain

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    Looks cool! The only thing I'd change would be the dazzle camouflage for the WWII destroyer; since we're dealing with small-ish models, that kind of detailed textures gives off too much of a "rugged" and dirty vibe, which ends up masking the 3D model (which was kinda the point of camouflage :D). It would be more elegant to use monochromatic, regular patterns and textures.

    Also, what do you think about adding a late-game, resource-free naval trash unit? I was inspired by the idea of carrier taskforces, wherein a handful of vessels shield the carrier itself from agressors. Since 6 destroyers sounds like a bit overkill, why not add something like a "modern frigate"? It could be either melee or ranged.
     
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  16. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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  17. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    Thanks for the input. You are probably right about the camo. It looks good when you zoom in, but when you pull the camera away a bit, it is as you say. I am a bit busy right now with my work, but I will have a look at it again - probably next week.

    Regarding the new modern naval unit, I am not sure if I understand correctly - do you mean a new ship just to absorb attacks when protecting the carriers? I think we already have destroyers for the carrier protection. One thing I learned the hard way when I was modding Civ3, was that if you create too many unit types, they will not be distinct enough and in the end, not only AI, but also human players will prefer 1 kind of unit and ignore the other one.

    That being said, I am actually secretly working on a mod-mod(-mod) which creates 3 naval unit type lines starting in the late industrial era: 1) The melee destroyer line 2) The "skirmish" cruiser line (= 1 tile range, can move after the attack) 3) Battleship line - very strong, expensive in both costs and resources with 2-tile ranged heavy punch, but no move after attack. It requires ENW. As my mod-mod(-mod) is adding a couple of new units and changing the role of the existing ones, I also re-shuffled the tech tree quite a bit. I am in the middle of the 1st test game and so far I am quite happy about the unit balance, but I already planned another tech tree re-shuffle. Once I finish the 2nd beta test, I will consult a few things with the experienced modders here, get the permissions from the 3D model authors and upload it to the mod repository. It is not exactly what you are asking for, but I think you might enjoy it. I was originally irked by having nothing between the destroyer and the battleship (= a cruiser), so it all started rather as a flavor / historic accuracy mod-mod just for myself, but as it seems to be quite balanced and the AI seems to understand the purpose of all the ships, I decided to polish it and share it publicly when it is ready, so stay tuned :)
     
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  18. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Looks like this idea:
    #21
    Whatever the concept, the point is "resource-free naval trash unit"
     
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  19. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    @vyyt Appreciate all your comments. They are very thorough and it is clear that you've tested things :)

    I will not comment on the models or textures. First, I am not a graphics guy so I needed to use the ready-made ones. Second, it is probably kind of subjective what you find "good" in graphics. I chose those models not because they are the best but mostly because they are not very unique or specific. These units are supposed to be generic ones and it is very difficult to find a generic model. There are many specific ships available, looking crazy good like the real ones. But when I see it, I know that this is this specific ships, not a generic one. Anyway, very subjective.

    I am aware of that. All the ships from late eras have been re-scaled to properly show their size in relation to others from those eras. So... if you have a super-carrier which is 300+ meters long, and I made it took like 1.2 tile (the biggest model), then early subs or destroyers pale in comparison. So, yeah there is a discontinuity in ships scaling when you go (in general) from wooden ships to steel ships, and it is both by design and by necessity.

    Sure is. But tedious as hell. There is no tool for that, so it is a manual work. You need to find the torpedo effect in subs files and then change .ftsxml and .fxsxml files from the destroyer to contain this effect. These are state machines together with xml-style definition of various graphical effects. Quite difficult if you are not into graphics.

    Well, it means that you beeline :) So, you skip one era of "ship development". It is a matter of tech tree and placement of various things. Ships tend to jump around a bit.

    Again - a matter of tech tree design. I put ENW sub one era before VP sub. I never checked for Oil.
    But yet again like in rl - you acquired plans for a sub (your scientists did a good job), but without Oil you will not build anyway. After thinking, I don't believe that discovering Oil was an actual prerequisite to "invent" subs. Da Vinci probably already designed them, I bet :)

    I don't know how it is now, but I remember that when I was creating ENW subs were weak in general. Also, early subs in RL were extremely weak in direct combat. Their only (and main) advantage was being invisible. They were supposed to attack first and VP does a well job here giving huge promos when attacking.
    Anyway, this is just a balance tweak, easy to do if needed.

    One last note. Regardless of the discussion, it is rather unlikely that I will do any big updates to ENW.
     
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  20. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    That's what I thought and it's a good idea! Unfortunately, the Ironclad and Cruiser fall out of that schema; they're both metal ships (their hulls, at least) that don't rely on sails or oars for propulsion anymore but they are significantly larger (especially their width) than the WW1 destroyer. It's actually bothering me quite a bit :crazyeye:
    Would you consider adding this to the mod? That is, making the Ironclad and Cruiser much smaller such that all the wooden sailing ships are more or less scaled appropriately and all the metal fueled ships as well, relative to their group. From what little I know about modding it seems to me this might be achievable with a small SQL change, so not a big update? :)
     

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