Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by RedRalph, Mar 30, 2009.
What do ye think? How do you think Obama views Europe?
Meh... enthusiasm always dips a bit after a while. Plus, the guy has bigger problems than Europe.
True, but will he be viewed negatively when compared with Bush in Warsaw, Budapest etc?
I can't speak for Warsaw specifically. I can say that he'll be better received in 98% of the world than Bush was. Not that that's hard.
In an economic crisis this bad just about every nation is going to come under heavy domestic pressure to take certain steps that may not be all that popular globally. As one would naturally expect, those domestic concerns are usually gonna trump any international disapproval. But we have past examples to go by that hopefully will ensure things don't get too excessive. Everyone knows that rampant reactionary protectionism exacerbated every aspect of the Great Depression. Hopefully the countries of the world know better than to try that again.
But as far as major government spending to prop up struggling domestic industries...the US ain't the only country doing and that's a matter where local interests are gonna trump outside concerns. The rest of the world may not like it, but hopefully they can understand it, but even if they don't, they're gonna have to live with it. This isn't about propping up and subsidizing non-competitive domestic industries, this is about weathering a crisis that even well run companies can become victims of. A situation in which inaction may lead to much more dire consequences. Worry about the aftermath when it comes.
As for Russia, I'm not a fan of the Administration's softened stance because I don't believe that Russia has a genuine interest in being a lawful, positively contributing member of the global community. Russia is out for Russia, all other concerns be damned. Europe are the ones dependent upon Russia's natural gas and oil reserves and they're the ones talking tough. We should feel embarrassed and ashamed for not backing them.
do you think the last administration's policy towards Russia was a better one? do yo0u think its achieved more than Obama will?
and I think you are right baout him having to take steps for the US, and not the rest of the world, however, these days both are so intertwined, his actions at home could come back to haunt him
I can't for the life of me see what the last Administration's policy was towards Russia. At least not a consistent, coherent one. First GWB peers into Putin's soul and sees a good man, than he's building a missile defense shield to protect us from rogue states right next door (just about) to Russia.
Than again, I don't yet know what the Obama administration's policy towards Russia is going to be, except that the moment it seems softer and more open.
But the Bush policy also seemed geared towards the expansion of NATO, further open engagement towards former Warsaw Pact and former Soviet Republic states. I supported that and still support it, even if it makes Russia feel uncomfortable. Quite frankly Russia needs to get over its centuries old paranoia of neighboring states being friendly towards any other nation but themselves. These are sovereign nations and they can deal with who they wish. None of them are in a position to invade Russia nor will they ever be. Nor is the US or Western Europe inclined to do anything of the sort for the foreseeable future.
Russia doesn't need to be suspicious of every damned thing that happens near their backyard unless their intention is to play bully and raise hell, which it often is. And they need to learn to accept the fact that sometimes these sovereign nations might pursue their own interests which won't always coincide with Russia's. This is part of that whole 'growing up' thing that Russia has yet to learn.
In either case, I think we should also be careful not to embolden these newly sovereign states to do something stupid like Georgia did a while back. They need to understand in no uncertain terms that the US is NOT going to go to war with Russia for them cause quite simply, they're not worth it.
In either case, Russia is touchy. Appeals to higher virtues of justice, human rights, or global cooperation are pretty much irrelevant with them. They will more often than not behave selfishly and pettily. If you want concessions or cooperation you must have something they want or a stick to wave that you're willing to use. I think this new, friendlier face the Obama Administration is using towards them will come to naught. I just hope the Obama Administration isn't naive enough to let themselves be exploited with their probably genuine good will.
I never liked him. Knew he'd be trouble with his anti-free trade protectionist agenda.
Obama most likely thinks of Europe the same as sane Americans (like myself) which is he likes Europe and respects the people.
I meant in political terms, not personal tastes. Oh, and I should have clarified, I didnt really mean Europe as a whole, but the various parts of it, most specifically UK, France, Russia, Germany, eastern Europe
Told you so.
Not sure why this is surprising? Whether its European leaders or the common American voter, people have unrealistic (and often competing) expectations of him. Additionally, whether its Obama or Bush or whoever, its normal, I think, for people to have their expectations dip after a time because they tend to give the benefit of the doubt, early. For example, I didn't vote for Bush in 2000, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt and would say that my view of him his first view months was a bit better simply out of optimism. Of course, it steadily declined.
Any opinion I say, including the one I said before, would be pure speculation.
I am unconvinced that the "snubs" at the end of your article are meaningful. I think the Obama administration is either unorganized (improbable) or extremely busy (more probable). But again, I couldn't say definitively. In sum, I simply don't think the dealings with European leaders so far mean anything negative.
EDIT: And post the link to your articles please.
Get this guy channeling McCarthy and fear and hatred of the Soviet Union in this day and age!
Those are obviously peaceful military troops who are only there to counter the Iran terrorist threat, just like the missile shield.
At least he got the insecurity part right...
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