Environmentalism

[Nightfang]

Man, what a joke this civic is. So far, every game I have played has gotten to the point where it can be used, and I have no trees left! I have butchered my land to assist in production and to get the most from the tiles. When the UN votes it in (which I always refuse) I am suddenly cast from being profitable to running in the red for several turns while I work on trying to get my income back up to snuff.

Has anyone a decent way of using this civic?

 

[nihil8r]

build lumbermills on grassland/forest

 

[panzooka]

really good on tropical map

 

[Elsewhere]

"I have butchered my land to assist in production and to get the most from the tiles"

You answered your own question.

 

[Maksim]

Yes, I have. I've been playing a game last night where my capital was built on the floodplains. High city population, kept in control first through hereditary rul and then a combination of resources + culture slider, and lots of unhealthiness. So I didn't cut down my forests, as they were giving me +2 healthiness. So what if it's only 2F/1H?

Later on, with lumbermills and railroads everywhere, they were even more productive.

Environmentalism was the perfect solution for me - suddenly my health problems were completely gone (I was running at -4 health and still growing for a while), and I got a nice happiness boost which allowed me to lower the culture slider a bit.

Now, it may not be a perfect solution for your strategy, but don't call the civic useless because of it.

 

[zafyro]

So someone has used it? I find hard to abandon free market for it as i use to have a high number of cities and loosing a trade route on each of them is expensive mostly when i usually do not need the extra health and happiness i could have with it. Up until now i have not used it, i supose that if i reach the end of the game with poor food variety i can make a use of it, but usually it´s not the case [what i do not have i trade with my allies]

It also has a high upkeep. I only use this policy when i want to impose other empires it to cripple his economy and that´s not a lot.

 

[King Flevance]

I never use it and fear the UN because of it. Even if I have lumbermills, I prefer State Property. I usually utilize rivers with watermills to make basically farms with 2 hammers. I want to vote on global state property as it saves you heaps of cash too with no maintenance based off distance to capitol.

 

[Psyringe]

I never used Environmentalism so far. Health problems are usually solved by researching Genetics, and Future Tech afterwards.

 

[Breunor]

Pnzooka said it. I played on the plains' map, where I started on a floodplain with food out the wazoo abut few resources -- the AI civ's had the oppsoite. (BTW, this has been my favorite game so far. These different maps are great, but iI los tthe first time I tried it!)

The biggst impediment to my growth was health. My capital had a -6! This occurred because of good food growth, but flood plains and few health saving resources.

When I got environmentalism, I won the game! It changed my growth patterns, I churned out specialists, etc.

Best wishes,

Bruenor

 

[wmtrexler]

I prefer to pave everything.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well Environmentalism is basically a Civic that no one would choose except in unusual circumstances for the late game (minimal Happy/health resources).

I think the reason it is in the UN options is thhe ONLY reason that it is there. Because
1. High maintenance=penalty for big civ
and
2. Health Bonus=bonus for small civ with few resources

making it an 'even the playing field' civic, nothing you should ever choose unless you have some real problems. (or can inflict it on others through the UN)

 

[Zhahz]

I don't care for it and I tend to chop down every tree that isn't on tundra so I don't have that many lumbermills. I prefer mines, watermills, and the civic that adds production to towns (can't remember and too lazy to look it up).

But hey, the great thing about the civics system is that it gives more options and flexibility.

 

[Saint_Saturn]

Nobody really uses environmentalism as a standard? Every game I've played, I grab that civic the moment it becomes available. Now, I play as American (Roosevelt), so the price tags associated with these civics are not much of a problem. Next, the biggest benefit I see is the bonus to health. I see that health bonus as a way for me to be able to push production in late game situations without having certain cities slack off due to unhealthiness. I find this most helpful after taking over other cities, immediately allowing me to push units/production builidings out and not having to waste turns on health buildings.

 

[TLHeart]

Using Environmentalism during the late game, I was able to trade my one rice, and my one wheat, for incences, benfit to all my religions, and spices. Cranked up the population and production and won the space race. So it is not a useless civic, all depends on what you need at that time.

Nobel, many cities set to no growth, health and happiness at 0 or -1 before the switch.

 

[Panda]

Haven't used it. And I always try to leave at least one forest square per city.

 

[chewbaccad]

Environmentalism isn't my favorite, but it does have its uses. The biggest would be during the one-city challenge game type. Environmentalism is a huge boon to your city in the end game when you've well outgrown the health limits. It can also help in situations where your local happiness resources far outweigh your health resources... or if you've angered everyone so badly they'll no longer trade health resources to you.

 

[Lucas87]

while in most cases, it is a very bad civic, it does have some uses. I always get this civic in one city challenge. Because in the late game I'm at the very least a -6 on food from health and the other civics dont help me a whole lot. Basically if you have a really small empire of massive Great People farms this can be useful. Obviously if you have a large empire and go for cottages over farms (specialists) then you will have enough health resources and your cities wont be so big so this is really useless. Plus the high civic cost and the opportunity cost of not having state property mean more if you have a large empire.

 

[panzooka]

if u are spiritual, your capital health is example 25 > 25, then some one comes and pillage your fishing boat, oops, your capital health is now 24 > 25, thats ok, but that -1 food, and if that makes your capital staving, quickly turn on environmentalism, while u are recovering the fishing boat

 

[zafyro]

problem is that my games are very unbalanced in the end so i usually o not have health problems having most of the food sources by my self or by comerce. I guess that if i was deprived of this i could consider the goverment but even my 28 size cities usually do not need it [ecology gives you also the recicling center and that with all the other health improvement buildings makes enough health for me].

Also this size / health problem can only be located is very speciic cities [usualy the ones i dedicate to generate GP] and had all his lands irrigated, or that are located in an all flood plains spot. so i´d rather choose to stop that city growth than to cripple my economu by not choosing state property [perfect for huge empires] or free market... or even mercantilism...

just my opinion

 

[Grogs]

I usually stop my city growth in the low 20's, so I'm usually OK on health anyway. Even with forge/factory/coal plant/drydock I find I can usually keep my healthy number greater than unhealthy with health improvements. The only time I've ever used Environmentalism was when the UN forced it on me. I couldn't believe that one really. There were 7 Civs, *nobody* was running environmentalism, and yet every civ (except for me) voted for it. I could see how it would be useful in an OCC or with a small empire, but I think it's really limited.