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[GS] Envoy AI cheat?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Kayak06460, Jul 2, 2019.

  1. Kayak06460

    Kayak06460 Chieftain

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    1. Levied CS army of 5 swordsmen and 1 archer for 765 gold. I had 6 envoys, Georgia had 3.
    2. Declared war on Georgia.
    3. Georgia somehow immediately added 7 envoys to CS and became suzerain.
    4. I lost CS units.
    5. CS declares war on me.

    Can you bank envoys or is this just an AI cheat?
     
  2. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    You can bank envoys. Just close the window telling you to place them. I end up banking envoys a lot since if you aren't taking suz or getting to a certain bonus level there's no real point in placing them.

    The AI does bank them a lot and will usually save them just to screw you over, but they aren't infinite or created out of nowhere afaik.
     
    Victoria likes this.
  3. Abaxial

    Abaxial Prince

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    I generally bank envoys - at least 2-3 so I can quickly switch back a CS that gets flipped. But sometimes I find that an AI civ has invested 15 or more envoys in one CS, and I do wonder where they all came from.

    Flipping control of a CS that you have just levied is standard practice for the AI and very annoying. It would be wise to have at least two more envoys than you strictly need before you levy.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It is not an AI cheat.... the question comes up quite often. I have checked the game_influence.csv log quite a few times and can track when an AI gains an envoy (influence) and when it uses it. In the file snapshot below you can see on T280 civ 6 dumping a lot of envoys (you can tell it is Hungary because they get a free envoy on suze)
    You also have to remember that the Containment card is very powerful in this regard (A new envoy counts as two, if its Suzerain has different government than you). I will often save up envoys for use with it and the AI may do too, you can also see what cards they slot a policy in the AI_GovtPolicies.csv file filtering on action 'slot policy'. I just checked my latest log and to be fair from T226 to T284 no civ had slotted it but that does not mean they do not. However they would have to implement card logic for the slot and may not have done so.
    They also go after quests, I have seen them very commonly getting quests.

    upload_2019-7-2_15-51-10.png

    I have found 4 more stops all but Hungary normally.
    I levied Hattusa and had 6 while Poland had 0. I also had Zanzibar near my cap with 3 in it. Poland suzed Zanzibar with 4 which not only was a huge pain but also messed up my attack loyalty big time.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
  5. Kayak06460

    Kayak06460 Chieftain

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    Thank you for that explanation. I didn’t know we could save envoys.
     
  6. jddods

    jddods Prince

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    I too save envoys. And just did the very same "cheat" against the AI last night.
     
  7. circeus

    circeus Chieftain

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    Can you definitely confirm that AIs don't get automatic free initial envoys as though they were the first to meet a city-state? I could swear this happens in the early game.
     
  8. jddods

    jddods Prince

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    haven't ever seen it but it would be pretty easy to check.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    As @jddods is says, looking in the game_influence.csv file is not hard but seriously.... you think I am lying or something. I have checked a few times and also the AI does quests so on deity for example.
    The AI is way ahead of you for culture so has a lot more envoys quickly
    The AI starts with 5 warriors so will meet more CS than you
    The AI has more cash and production so will complete more quests than you
    The AI gets a few civics free at the start of the game, if one includes an envoy then they have one at the start, but it is nothing nefarious.
    ....
    So yes, the AI is getting more envoys than you but does not need to cheat to do so.
    In most games I am the suze of over half the CS by the end of the game... so it is beatable... if you want to take that strategy.
     
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  10. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Prince

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    Also Georgia can easily get 2 or 3 envoys per envoy sent.
     
  11. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    This, Tamar's ability: Each Envoy sent to a city-state of Georgia's majority Religion counts as two Envoys.
     
  12. Abaxial

    Abaxial Prince

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    In my last game, in one CS where Trajan was suzerain, I had 20 envoys, some counting double because of different governments, ran two or three successful "fabricate scandal missions" and still couldn't displace Trajan.
     
  13. circeus

    circeus Chieftain

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    Oh crap, I'm sorry I came off like that. I genuinely wanted to know about this specifically since you were yourself (in my reading) answering a specific point.

    I'm not playing at high difficulties, though so literally none of these apply to me (I mean, in theory... civ games have a long history of lying to players about difficulty levels and what the AI does behind the scene!), but I've encountered the "civ seems to have unusual amount of envoys" even when they couldn't possibly have completed most of these quests (i.e. GP recruitments, religious conversions when the civ hasn't even founded a religion...)
     
  14. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    @Victoria can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think each major Civ gets a different quest from each city state. So even if you have a difficult or impossible one for a particular CS, the AI civs may have easier ones.
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Or vice versa... however... on a standard map you are against 7 other civs so only have a 1/8 chance of getting the easiest.
    This is only an assumption. I have had a barb camp destroyed by another civ and they got the quest but that is quite possibly random (bad) luck.
    I have not specifically checked this area but will do so now.... The only way I will be able to spot it is if 2 civs get a free envoy for the same CS in the same era... should not be hard to find.

    NP, I understand your keeness to know but if someone asks you the same question after you have answered it it can feel a little mistrusting. Most of what we do is not intentional and we often forget that when replying including myself.
     
  16. Karmah

    Karmah King Supporter

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    Burst in envoys can be explained by Amani puppeteer also. Although being at war with an AI should prevents it from flipping a city state from that strategy alone.
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @WillowBrook
    Yellow is my quests
    In green two different civs finish a quest with the same CS showing civs have different quests
    I have seen many more quests finished than this but because there is so few they may be more accidental than aiming for them.

    upload_2019-7-4_16-35-32.png

    From this I can see that turn 84 was the era change
    upload_2019-7-4_15-57-15.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
    WillowBrook likes this.
  18. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Prince

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    The Ai cheats more than it functions as an actual Ai, so I understand where you are coming from.
     
  19. circeus

    circeus Chieftain

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    Pretty much. Civ6 doesn't seem to be as bad as its predecessor, but it only makes me more suspicious, tbh. XD (The one confirmed and unofficial I've found is that AI trade routes are less likely to get plundered by barbarians. As in, I have literally seen an AI trader move through an inhabitated barbarian camp unharmed)

    I mean, designing an actual AI is doable! Stardock have managed it with Galciv (and GalCiv III has a super developped trade AI to boot. I miss being able to pay AIs to beat each other senseless in Civ...). I'd play a lot more Galciv if the annoying way they implemented those custom spaceship didn't slow my computer to a goddamn crawl.
     
  20. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Prince

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    The Ai is really the last thing fully implemented in a game and it universally seems that programmers are tired of the project at that point and do not want to spend much time making it good. Civ has always been more about the cheat though.
     

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