ERIN GO BRAGH: Designing Ireland

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by cosmicmangobear, Apr 2, 2019.

  1. cosmicmangobear

    cosmicmangobear Warlord

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    With the addition of Scotland, I can only pray this means moving away from blob “Celts” in favor of individual representation of insular Celtic cultures in the vein of “Norway” and “Sweden” instead of the earlier “Vikings”. That said what would you like to see from a specific Irish civilization? Which leaders are worthy to lead the Emerald Isle? What specific units and buildings would they get? And how would their unique ability play out?
     
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  2. Phrozen

    Phrozen King

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    I think early Medieval Ireland focus would work best when Ireland was one of the most educated places in Western Europe. A monastery building that gives culture as well as faith and has slots for gww would be their unique building. UU would be Gallowglass probably even if at first they were Scottish mercenaries. The Kern would also be a good UU as a faster skirmisher.
     
  3. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Agree with the 'early Medieval' focus: or one thing, after the Renaissance they were largely reduced to "anti-English" and so suffering from a very warped development.

    Throwing out ideas at random here. . .

    Because of the emphasis on learning in the early Irish Church, suggest that the Irish Monastery provide +1 Culture, +1 Faith, +1 Science and possibly, a Great Writer Point. And, reflecting their generally isolated foundations, cannot be built next to a City Center or District or another Monastery, but gets additional +1 Faith if built on a coastal tile.

    Just about the only purely Irish military unit would be the Kern, probably best represented as either a Warrior with extra mobility in marsh, woods and/or hills or a Scout with extra melee factor.

    On the other hand, the Irish fought for everybody else: there were Irish units in the Swedish, French, Spanish, and English Armies in the Renaissance/early Industrial Eras, and in the French Army the Irish Regiments were considered Elite Troops. Perhaps some mechanism allowing Ireland to 'gift' troops to someone else, or generate Units in another Civ/City State whenever an Irish city is captured (representing the emigration that formed France's "Wild Geese" after the defeat back home at the Boyne by the English/Dutch)

    The influence of Irish song and poetry is almost a byword: perhaps Ireland should get a bonus to Great Writers and their Great Works in addition to or instead of the GW points from a Monastery.
     
  4. Phrozen

    Phrozen King

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    I would make it a unique building replacing the temple or even a third tier religious building that you can build regardless of your religion in a city.

    Hobelars were used by everybody in Western Europe but originated in Ireland as well.

    Maybe have them gift units to city states for diplomatic favor?
     
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  5. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    .

    Problem is, Irish Monasteries were designed for Isolation: even today, if you want to visit the ruins of one of the old monastic sites, you wind up tramping through the countryside with nothing nearby bigger than a hamlet. Making it an Improvement (UI) allows the 'proper' placement out in the countryside - and saves a slot in the Holy Site districts for more 'regular' religious buildings.

    A good choice, but I think GS has 'pre-empted' us with the Courser unit. The Hobilar or Hobelar could be an Irish UU replacing the Courser, possibly available a little earlier. Another option which would be even more unique would be for the Hobelar to be an Irish replacement for the Skirmisher: a Mounted Recon unit that excels in speed and pillaging, can provide Flanking and Support bonuses.

    To show the 'diaspora' element of the Irish overseas, perhaps any Irish city which goes to 0 growth because of lack of Food surplus, Amenities, water access, or any other reason, generates an "Irish Rover" - a military unit that can be gifted to a City State for, say, the equivalent of 2 Envoys' worth of Influence, or even to another Civ for Favor. The unit would take one population point out of the city - which isn't growing anyway - but would require no production or time from the Irish Civ.

    We could well end up with an Irish Civ that had decent advantages in religion, culture, science, and diplomacy, but was not overwhelming in any of them.

    Now if we could just work in those two most Outstanding Irish Inventions, Jameson whisky and Guiness ale . . .
     
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  6. Txomin

    Txomin Warlord

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    Unique luxuries make a surprise return :lol:
     
  7. Phrozen

    Phrozen King

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    We couldn't get a distillery UI for Scotland so....
     
  8. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    Yes, don't understand what Firaxis has against alcohol. Being half-Lit is about the only way to make sense out of some of the game play mechanics they give us . . .
     
  9. Jkchart

    Jkchart Emperor

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    A lot of these ideas are ones I've had on my mind as well.

    I definitely suggest absorbing the Armagh city state and it's Monastery improvement, and it gets additional faith/culture from being isolated from districts, and appeal (like a faith chemmamul), as opposed to the current "extra faith from adjacent districts" nonsense. That's exactly NOT what a monastery is.

    The Unique Unit definitely leaves room for a few fun ideas:
    First, the Kern, which could replace the Skirmisher, similar to the Waraq'aq. So, to differentiate it from that unit, we could add the ability for it to see through trees and be unimpeded by the movement of woods/rainforest, similar to the Ngao Mbeba (Kerns liked to strike from the trees in ambush/harassment tactics). They could also be slightly and weaker and cheap, since their preferred weapon was throwing darts. Although Kerns did fight with Gallowglasses, they were a very true Native-Irish troop type.

    Also, there is the Gallowglass suggestion. However, they were more Western Scottish than Irish troops, and it would also likely give us another military tactics unit that we all are uneasy about due to hard-builds. It could be a "buy only" unit, but it still makes a bit more sense for Scotland. That being said, as Gallowglasses did later come to Ireland and become more Irish, it could be a very nice melee infantry, possibly have to be bought, but powerful. They could be kind of a dismounted Knight since many of them were landowners.

    Lastly, the Hobelar was suggested, a possible Courser replacement. While yes they were used by everyone, so was the Hussar, and we've seen it appear as a Unique Unit twice (three times if you count the hidden Austrians in Civ III).

    In short, all three are decent options, but I'd go for the Kern.

    So we now have a unit, and an improvement.

    Abilities?

    Well, since we have the Monastery, let's go with a religious ability.

    Celtic Church: +1 faith for the city from all tiles with high appeal. Receives twice as many great prophet points from Holy Sites and their buildings. Receive an extra belief when founding a religion (stolen from the Civ V Byzantines, inspired by the distinctive practices of the Celtic Church). Apostles have one extra spread and are 15% cheaper.

    Now, a leader:
    Let's go with Brian Boru
    High King of Ireland
    : Cities with a Monastery receive +2 loyalty on your home continent. Gains +1 gold and faith for every city with your religion, increased to +2 if that city has a Monastery improvement. This gold is doubled if that city has a Holy Site in it. Naval Units and Melee units receive +3 Combat Strength when attacking a city, +5 on his own continent. Unlocks the Currach unit, which doesn't replace anything. It is available at sailing and is weaker than a galley...but is a coastal raider. This means it benefits from invisibility and the coastal raids, and upgrades to a privateer. It is a melee unit though.

    So, I added a unit here, btw - returning all the way from Civ III if any of you remember...I added it for the nostalgia faction, and I also added it as a nod to Boru's successful incorporation of Naval tactics with his conquests. So, Boru has some light domination abilities, but really encourages religion with the rest of the Irish abilities.

    Agenda: Cogadh Gaedhil re Gallaibh - Wants to control and conquer his entire continent. Dislikes those with cities on his continent. Likes others who aren't on his continent. Hates anyone who conquers his founded cities. (Referencing his attempts to unite and control the entirety of Ireland).

    Capital: Caiseal
     

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