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Espionage Economy in MP?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Feet, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Feet

    Feet Warlord

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    Does this work in MP? I've not even tried it in SP before, but it probably would work much better against the AI, than against real people?

    Do nations get notifications everytime an act of espionage is performed against them? Do they always get told the nationality of the spy? If so then I'll just be inviting aggression when I start stealing techs and generally spending my espionage points on my neighbours and real people reactions will be to first try to subvert the espionage, and then when they realise they can't compete, to attack me.

    In the current MP game Im playing I got Tokugawa(Agg\Prot -_-, I am not a warmonger at all usually) and an average starting location, and I missed out on GW by 1 turn. I'm already behind in research and making a significant loss due to expnding too quickly to some islands to my north, which in hindsight won't pay for themselves at all for ages unless I manage to build the Colossus. So I thought I might try something different to see if I can keep up with others who have a better starting leader and a better starting location.

    What victory condition should I be aiming for with EE? Is the EE even possible if I don't really generate many Great Spies?
     
  2. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    They are notified, but they do not allways know who did that. A somewhat experienced human player will figure out tho.

    My feeling is that the Espionagge Economy is good for agressive win strategies - Conquest/Domination - stelaing thechs from the tech leader and using those to bully the more backward civs. Eventually having enought land/production to go after the tech leader as well, while having he same tech as him.

    But i think that will not work well MP - people will notice and try to prevent that. I dont play lot's of MP, so i don't know how it will turn out...

    GW is good to have, but not that important - you can make your great spy's later from running specialists.

    If you don't generate Great Spys, you are probably not really running a EE - because if you did, you would have some spy specialists in your cities, who would pop some great spys...
     
  3. Feet

    Feet Warlord

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    Aye, i'll make sure to switch my specialists in my cities to spies ASAP if I decide to persue this strategy. I may go for it anyway just to keep things interesting and see what happens. And yes they'd figure it out by seeing who is way way in the lead on the espionage graph if they bother to look. Atleast my armies will have good promotions from the get-go so if anyone does attack I can fend them off.

    Not too sure about conquest really, I have no iron at all and there isn't any nearby (good news is neither does my biggest neighbour). Since I'm playing against friends rather than strangers no one has ever attempted a conquest or domination victory before, since it's fun for the person doing the conquesting, but everyone else getting wiped out will hate it (me). That's not to say we won't go to war, just only over resources, for good city spots and for preventing someone else getting too far ahead or completeing victory conditions. Never for annilation. There's alot of modern wars in our games.

    Generally speaking our games are won via diplomatic victory or space race. Do these victory conditions suit the EE? Or perhaps I could try for a culture victory (which doesn't happen very often either)?

    I do want to win, but I recognise that my civ and starting location are poor for my usual play so I'm likely to be left behind. Hence wanting to try something new and maybe a little outragous. :p
     
  4. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    I think Culture does not go to well with spy-economy... You need running artists adn culture slider, so not much spying left.

    Space... Works well against the AI (tho rather slow, as you need to wait the AI to tech all the SS-Parts), because the AI builds the Spaceships in a somewhet brain-dead manner. But against humans - the one turn you need to stela the last tech might be all the headstart they need...

    On diplo i can't say much. Never was even close to winning it (Won a cheesy Apostolic one once, but that does not really count.)
     
  5. Feet

    Feet Warlord

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    Hmm, ok that all makes sense. Space Race would probably be out as you say... Doesn't leave much.

    I guess the EE is best suited to conquest so maybe it won't suit in this game at all.

    Thanks for your help. :)
     
  6. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Hmm. Space Race is out, but only for the other players. Use hordes of Spies to sabotage Spaceship parts. Pop Great Spies using the Great Wall and (preferably, but "or" is okay) Spy Specialists.
     
  7. OTAKUjbski

    OTAKUjbski TK421

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    This is still very likely to happen, because 2 + 2 = 4.

    • Player A realizes he's getting sabotaged a lot.
    • Player A knows it costs lots of :espionage: to keep that up.
    • Player A notices that acts of espionage cost a helluva lot more against Player B than they do against Players C, D & E.
    • Player A concludes Player B must have a lot of :espionage: against him.
    • Player A concludes Player B is performing most of the acts of espionage.
    • Player A attacks Player B.

    -- my 2 :commerce:
     
  8. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    And of course, Player A suddenly wonders why he can see inside of Player B's cities on the turn after his brand new tech was stolen by somebody. :shifty:
     
  9. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Yeah I think so too altough I don't play MP, an AI even if it realized might not be concerned enough so to speak to take action unless the spying is causing it severe problems. Human opponents are less rational and might let their emotions sway them into taking action even if it's uncalled for from a strategic perspective. So I think you'd invite alot of grief.
     
  10. MrBrown

    MrBrown Chieftain

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    Any experienced MP is going to monitor the enemies actions anyway, so not building a protective army is not an option in the first place. While various strategies do work in MP, every strategy should include a decent production capacity for a defensive army.

    The biggest problem for EE in MP is, IMHO, that human players are far more likely to concentrate their espionage points on you once they notice what you're doing. While this won't prevent you from doing espionage missions, it will raise the costs, making your overall effectiveness less than it would be in SP. And I say this as a person who has never played EE, in SP or MP.:mischief:


    The way I play the Japanese (and I do love them, yes I do:love:), is that I use 1 or 2 cities (depending on my area and map size) for SE and the rest of the cities for production. With all the promotion bonuses and that UB, I think the Japanese just have to focus on production.
     

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