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Espionage Points - how to use them

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by noto, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. noto

    noto Warlord

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    Okay, so, Civ makes stealing techs possibly cheaper than researching them yourself, but this isn't guaranteed. One of the main factors affecting the cost of stealing a tech is the base cost factor that is decided by the ratio of your EPs to the other civ's EPs. In my games I often assign EPs to the relative threat of the civ. I'll have a few civs getting most of my EPs with the rest getting very little. What I'm wondering is this: does it make more sense to just concentrate all EPs on the tech leader? That would allow for cheaper tech steals, but would mean no passive espionage information on the other civs. Demographics, visibility and research path are nice things to know.
     
  2. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    The Cost-Factor you mentioned depends on the total espionage spending - Every Esp Point you made throught the game counts, including those already spent - no matter who you directed those points too. The Mission Discount depends on the ratio of those totals between you and the opponent. (This is btw. why espionage economy is best, when beeing run pure - every point you make makes everything else cheaper)

    So to get a good discount you just need to make lots of esp points. You can direct those to who you want, depending on what the sitiation dmeands.

    Most of your points should simple go towars the civ you are planning a mission against. But tts a good idea to assign some few points to every civ, to be able to see Demographics and - important for porper stealing decisions - what they teching.
     
  3. DrJambo

    DrJambo Crash-test dummy

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    So... base cost is affected by total EP spending, and then individual mission cost is affected by the EP ratio between civs in question... correct?
     
  4. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    EP ratio ?
     
  5. DrJambo

    DrJambo Crash-test dummy

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    Sorry Refar, misread your first post. It's all to do with the total EP spending and the ratio between this for the civs in question.
     
  6. noto

    noto Warlord

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    hang on a second...huh?? Let's say I ramp up espionage spending, but focus most points on one target. I know that the base cost calculation for that one target will drop, making stealing techs cheaper. but will it also drop for the other civs? I didn't think it would...
     
  7. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    Yep.

    The discounts depend on the ratio of total esp points ever made.

    This is why in espionage games you sometimes will have 70% mission cost agains people from the other continent you just met...

    The points you direct towards a target go towards passive benefits (Seeind Demogrpaphics, Teching, Later city visibility) and of course can be used in missions. And when you use up those, you will loose passive benefits, until you rebuild the pool. You can distribute those as seems fit without wowwying about loosing your discounts.
     
  8. noto

    noto Warlord

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    I just tested this and you're right. However...during my testing I was waaay behind every other civ in tech (I ramped up EP on the slider right after alphabet). I know there are threads on the EE, what's the best one? I'm a little sceptical that it could work.
     
  9. Refar

    Refar Deity

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  10. noto

    noto Warlord

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    I just madscientist's peter spy RPC. That didn't make the EE look too impressive...
     
  11. Refar

    Refar Deity

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    I didn't read it yet. I think there were odd variants rules in play (no Cottages ?) but i might be wrong. The point is not it beeing impresisve, but it beeing working - as such it's a tool that can be utilized if needed.

    Personally i am not fond of the 'hardcore' variants where you impose rules like "Stop teching after XYZ". (Nor any other varinats resticitng the strategic choices). And yes, i think with a good :science:-oriented economy you can often win faster than with espionage. But sometimes the games does not go as expected/planed so adjustment is needed. I had various games however, where the situation called for a switch, and the spy economy helped me to win out of a deep economic and technological hole.
     
  12. DeaExMachina

    DeaExMachina Warlord

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    Moving the slider from Beakers to EP is a really important decision that has to come at the right time. I find it works the best with Sumeria as you can construct their UB at the same tech you get Oracle allowing for a strong jump. Additionally since Priesthood is much shorter then CoL and allows you to grab a religion along the way your more financially secure and can score Spy Specialists a lot faster.

    Irregardless of whether I'm playing Sumeria (I tend to also do Isabella or an Industrial leader for EE) I don't flip my slider over until after I've popped my second Great Spy. At this point the building plus settling another spy will give me a strong enough count of EP I can usually tech steal from two or even three opponents almost securing that I'm the tech leader.

    The only downside to running an EE is that you won't be able to tech in any way you prefer. Instead your completly reliant on your opponents tech choices. This is however a great accompaniment for a Hammer Economy or whether your just simply in a poor financial area (high tundra).
     
  13. noto

    noto Warlord

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    I think the EE is viable once you have the buildings for it - the jail and the security bureau, or whatever, yuo know, the ones that multiply your esp points, but those buildings come very late
     

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