Espionage screen in 3.13

[Bushface]

The change in 3.13 is apparently just cosmetic; all the leaders show simultaneously now - making their little faces harder for my aged and trembling hands to get the pointer on. But there are some aspects of this screen that I don't understand, and some that I feel ought to be improved.

Firstly, what does the figure for City Visibility mean ? Even though I have more EPs than this figure, names of cities can appear in the lists but the cities do not show on the map. And a couple of times I have had a message "<your state religion> has spread in XXX", a city previously unknown to me which then shows on the map but not in the Esp. screen list.

How is the figure for "investigate city" calculated and why does it vary so widely ? For example, there are two civs for which the EP values and those for city visibility are very similar, but one needs more than double the EPs for me to gain investigation. For another civ, the "investigate" figure fell by around 50% over 5 turns, though there had been no obvious spy activity.

I thought that a vassal could no longer perform active spy missions against its master. So how did my vassal's EPs against me fall by 121 points in two turns ? Does an AI vassal have a concealed option to convert EPs to something else ? In those two turns, I suffered no espionage damage.

The espionage screen shows my EPs against the other civs, but not theirs against me. The latter can normally be seen by mousing over the scores panel, but this frequently does not work while the esp. screen is open. And while the basic costs of my missions, active and passive, are shown, there is no information as to what the costs for the other civs would be for missions against me. So if another civ has 300 EPs and I have 400 (and can investigate his cities) can he investigate mine ? Can he afford to incite a revolt ? How much am I at risk ?

I'd appreciate any elucidation !

 

[Kalyse]

Ha, Im from Torquay

Sorry, awful contribution to the thread.

Investigate City varies from the distance of that city to your capital. If I recall correctly.

 

[KMadCandy]

you get a discount for doing missions in cities that have your state religion in them. more if you have the holy city. that wouldn't explain why you get visibility into the city without it showing up on the espionage list, but it would explain why the visibility cost could go waaaaaay down.

what i do remember:
15% discount if the city has your SR but it's not his SR
25% discount if the city has your SR and you own the holy city
40% discount if the city has your SR, you have the holy city, and it's not his SR
25% discount if the city has your SR, it's also his SR, but you own the holy city
no religion discount if the city does not have your SR
no religion discount if the city has your SR but it is also his SR and you do not own the holy city

"For example, there are two civs for which the EP values and those for city visibility are very similar, but one needs more than double the EPs for me to gain investigation. For another civ, the "investigate" figure fell by around 50% over 5 turns, though there had been no obvious spy activity."

was he spreading your religion to those cities? i can't find the link for the article i got my info from, bah.

i don't know any way to tell how much it would cost them to run missions against me. i am a big fan of running counterespionage missions against them every 15 turns (on epic that's when it wears out), to the point where i put signs on the map reminding me when the 15 turns is going to wear off. it's a very cheap mission and it makes anything they try more expensive, so to me it's a good investment.

 

[Bushface]

I wasn't talking about active missions, the cost of which depends on many factors, but more about the passive ones which are civ-wide.
Love the warning-sign idea and will adopt it. But is it really worth a counterespionage mission against a civ which can't afford to do you real damage ? Problem is, what can the opposition afford ?

 

[King Flevance]

Firstly, what does the figure for City Visibility mean ? Even though I have more EPs than this figure, names of cities can appear in the lists but the cities do not show on the map. And a couple of times I have had a message "<your state religion> has spread in XXX", a city previously unknown to me which then shows on the map but not in the Esp. screen list.

You must find the city on the map. If it is in the fog of war, you gain the ability to see its inital 9 tiles. But if its in the sea of black, you arent granted line of sight.
As for religion, I don't know. I use Brhuics patch, and if my religion spreads I don't think it even tells me where that city is. Even if I have the shrine.

The espionage screen shows my EPs against the other civs, but not theirs against me. The latter can normally be seen by mousing over the scores panel, but this frequently does not work while the esp. screen is open. And while the basic costs of my missions, active and passive, are shown, there is no information as to what the costs for the other civs would be for missions against me. So if another civ has 300 EPs and I have 400 (and can investigate his cities) can he investigate mine ? Can he afford to incite a revolt ? How much am I at risk ?

I can't begin to describe how much I hate this. Other than that saying I hate it. As the "espionage screen" tells you less about enemy espionage than the main screen does.

I can't tell you much else in regards to your questions.Although I think passive missions are based on enemy espionage accumulated against you, their empire size, and possibly the # of their own spies they have in their territory. But that is a guess from what I have experienced in game.