Espionage - Steal Science vs Steal Tech

[proftc]

So, as I've said in other spots, I want to try a ARC fast spy as my first game.

The question I pose, is once the intrigue is high enough, should I switch from steal science missions to steal technology missions?

On one hand, we have steal science, which is going to forward my agenda for research, in small chunks.

On the other, we have steal tech, which is going to be likely to always come up with something, given the tech web and the fact that affinities start to favor one line of the web over another.

However, the stolen tech is random, and may or may not really be useful for my plans.

Thoughts?

 

[Smith of Lie]

It is really a situational judgment.

Do you need to beeline a certain tech? Do you plan on specific path, that you want to follow? Then syphoning science is obviously better.

On the other hand if an AI got far ahead in tech or if you can allow to gamble, stealing tech gives you chance for something high tier.

Ergo, I'd consider the needs of the given game. Or just go for steal tech, cause it is more fun.

 

[Karl0413]

I would steal science. Higher chance of success and less likely to give me an affinity tech I don't want.

 

[aguliondew]

You could steal a tech that is not worth it. Steal science seems better than getting something at random.

 

[MadDjinn]

Also keep in mind that you can always steal science (gain beakers) but you can successfully fail to steal a tech, leaving you with nothing for the effort.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Also keep in mind that you can always steal science (gain beakers) but you can successfully fail to steal a tech, leaving you with nothing for the effort.

So you can't fail the steal science?

I can understand if it is easier, but is it guaranteed?

 

[MadDjinn]

So you can't fail the steal science?

I can understand if it is easier, but is it guaranteed?

ok, you can 'fail' to steal science, but then your spy is also likely dead.

What I meant was that a) it's harder to steal a tech and b) you may not actually get a tech even if it was 'easy' to get. If for some reason you overlap their techs, then there's nothing to steal.

 

[Monthar]

Let's see if I understand this correctly. A successful steal tech mission can result in not getting a tech because the target has the same techs you already have. A successful steal science mission should always give some science, but the amount depends on how much science the city your spy is in is generating.

 

[Seek]

It seems situational to me: stealing science seems to grant ~2 turns worth of the thief's sci/turn* which can be a lot compared to a free tech (ie, early game or late game when all the small techs are already researched), or very little (mid-game when the random tech might give little to no benefit due to randomness).

Another thing to consider is who you are stealing from - if they are going the same affinity and are on par or ahead of you, stealing a tech that you actually want should be more likely.

*This is odd to me, but it's a simple equation, so I understand why it's done like this. Gaming the system by full science-focusing the turn before an Op to maximize return could be a thing, though.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Let's see if I understand this correctly. A successful steal tech mission can result in not getting a tech because the target has the same techs you already have. A successful steal science mission should always give some science, but the amount depends on how much science the city your spy is in is generating.

No according to Mad, you are very likely to succeed at getting science, but less likely to succeed at getting a tech

 

[Seek]

Let's see if I understand this correctly. A successful steal tech mission can result in not getting a tech because the target has the same techs you already have. A successful steal science mission should always give some science, but the amount depends on how much science the city your spy is in is generating.

That's correct, except that the amount of science stolen is based on your science per turn, not the cities. (I don't know why Krikkit said "no" at the start of his post, he didn't contradict anything you said, he just clarified that stealing a tech is more difficult.) The situation where you and the other faction both have the exact same techs researched is highly unlikely, however.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

That's correct, except that the amount of science stolen is based on your science per turn, not the cities. (I don't know why Krikkit said "no" at the start of his post, he didn't contradict anything you said, he just clarified that stealing a tech is more difficult.) The situation where you and the other faction both have the exact same techs researched is highly unlikely, however.

I was focusing on the 'always' and missed the 'should'.

However, have we confirmed that it is 2x Your science output and not that of the civ?

 

[MadDjinn]

However, have we confirmed that it is 2x Your science output and not that of the civ?

It's not always that. Later in the preview LP you'll see me stealing 1/2 a turns worth of science from a city.

 

[Seek]

It's not always that. Later in the preview LP you'll see me stealing 1/2 a turns worth of science from a city.

Interesting - I jumped around the later episodes of the KP game to see the values, and it was approximately 2x the previous turn's sci every time (and ~4.33x energy for energy steals), guess there is more going on there. Any insider info you have?

 

[s0nny80y]

Spy intrigue level is earned making harder missions easier.

 

[ggmoyang]

We need exact formulas for this. Stolen beakers, success chance, etc

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

If for some reason you overlap their techs, then there's nothing to steal.

Will the game alert a player that no techs are available when attempting to start the operation or will it force us to find out the hard way?

 

[Gort]

It's not always that. Later in the preview LP you'll see me stealing 1/2 a turns worth of science from a city.

Yeah, the times you managed to steal incredibly small amounts of science have convinced me to do this for my first game:

1. Locate weak enemy civ who isn't going for my affinity

2. Steal everything

I'm thinking it'll be a good way to pick up the earliest affinity levels for the affinities I'm not pursuing - some of that stuff is really good, like the free roads and magrails for Supremacy. It's also a good way to ensure that you'll manage to steal something.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Stealing science seems like the obvious choice. I'm not really sure under what circumstances that stealing a tech would be the optimal choice between the two, unless you're clearly in the tech lead and they are following a different affinity that you would like to increase your minority holding of without prioritizing those leaf techs yourself. Or just poops and giggles.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

The amount of science generated is based on the spying player's science output? If true, that is rather redic to the max.