Estonia the worst human rights abuser of EU

[Tekee]

The skrap of Europe. What other country issues "alien passports" to legal minorities?
And don;t even mention the mistreatment of illegal minorities
The whole Estonian Nation is built on an ethnic nota civic constitution!
So much that even Amnesty calls Estonia the worst human rights abuser in Europe.

Estonia has a sizeable Russian-speaking linguistic minority which constitutes approximately a third of the population. Persons belonging to this minority enjoy very limited linguistic and minority rights, and often find themselves de facto excluded from the labour market and educational system. Amnesty International believes that the current policies fail to constitute a coherent framework within which these ESC rights can be guaranteed for persons belonging to the Russian-speaking linguistic minority. Amnesty International is therefore calling on the Estonian authorities to remove barriers to the full and effective enjoyment of ESC rights.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/EUR51/002/2006

Once again, Nazi policies are not a barrier to NATO/EU membership
I hear there is an Nationalist-Socialist party in Russia that wishes to emulate the great Estonian State.

 

[cardgame]

does Estonia have an official language?

is it something other than russian?

learn it noobs!

 

[NovaKart]

I know nothing about Estonia but it would have to be pretty bad to be worse than Turkey in the human rights department. Turkey isn't in the EU though.

 

[wolfigor]

does Estonia have an official language?

yes, It's called Estonian (eesti keel)

is it something other than russian?

it's completely different from Russian, pretty close to Finnish.


For sure the behaviour of Estonian government is highly questionable, even if it effects only 7.5% of the population.
The people who are not Estonian (mostly Russians) that immigrated into Estonia during the Soviet time, didn't get full citizenship immediately when Estonia became independent.
But they could get the full citizenship if they could speak Estonian.

People with alien passport can still get full passport if they apply for it and pass a language exam.

 

[NovaKart]

I've heard that Finnish and Estonian are pretty difficult languages.

 

[Tekee]

I know nothing about Estonia but it would have to be pretty bad to be worse than Turkey in the human rights department. Turkey isn't in the EU though.

Oh yeah, well lets begin by it being a source, transit and destination country for trafficked individuals. And then the majority of Estonian-Russians are hookers (like 60% of all Estonian hookers are russian*** http://www.tai.ee/failid/Prostitution_in_Estonia._ingl.pdf) because of discriminatory barriers to getting real jobs.
(As compared to Soviet and Russian empire times, when only 8% of Estonian prostitutes were Russian, 90% Estonian)

So that is the cost of discrimination, the other cost is that the discrimination teaches Estonians that violence against minorities is appropriate! Such that in the rare event that an African student visits Estonia, he is attacked by skinheads throwing rocks! http://www.ucsj.org/news/foreign-students-estonia-terrorized-skinheads

Of course such policies are encouraged because it is a "naturalization" of the Russian minority into the :Estonian Ethnicity! skinheads are just a byproduct

 

[Ergo Sum]

Finnish and Estonian, being Uralic languages and not Indo-European like English and Russian, would logically be difficult to an English speaker.

 

[madviking]

I thought the anti-Russian sentiment was stronger in Latvia? Haven't they made getting citizenship there for Russian speakers very difficult/impossible?

 

[Cull]

Stupid thread is stupid.
Stupid meme is stupid.

 

[Azale]

Meh, relatively speaking this is all rather tame. It's like being the ugliest model at the Miss Universe Pageant.

 

[LightFang]

Meh, relatively speaking this is all rather tame. It's like being the ugliest model at the Miss Universe Pageant.

Is this--Is this an experience you've gone through?

 

[Azale]

Is this--Is this an experience you've gone through?

Bias! BIAS AGAINST THE BEAUTIFUL BHUTANESE RASE!

 

[Northen Wolf]

The skrap of Europe. What other country issues "alien passports" to legal minorities?

I don't know English terms but "green card" or "work visa" should fit into that category.

And don;t even mention the mistreatment of illegal minorities

What's there to mention? US&A does same in it's land. Iraqis with work visa are not as that widely accepted among local population as locals, who actually speak English, are.

The whole Estonian Nation is built on an ethnic nota civic constitution!

Our civic constitution says that Estonia belongs to Estonians and our main/legal language is Estonian. Besides if you do exams and pass test you may become Estonian citizen, how else can you expect to lead a country (vote) if you know nothing about country and can't even say 3 words in its native/major/official language?

So much that even Amnesty calls Estonia the worst human rights abuser in Europe.

Iranian small newspaper called USA terrorists country where people **** themselves (don't ask me how) and should castrate and then shoot themselves. As good recommendation as yours or Amnesty's.

Once again, Nazi policies are not a barrier to NATO/EU membership

Nazi policies? We do not shoot (in this case you referred to Russians) ethnic minorities. We don't use gas to kill them or work camps to "convert" them. Minorities who live here, work here. If any of them wants better job (than regular cleaners etc.) they learn to speak Estonian. Learning to speak Estonian allows Minorities to work within public sector. Doing language test, in governmental sector/police.

I am not going to speak Russian (for an example) in Estonia to buy bread. I'll speak Russian in Russia to buy bread there. I don't think any of you would speak Russian in USA to buy bread (cuz worker do not know any words in English or Spanish)

I hear there is an Nationalist-Socialist party in Russia that wishes to emulate the great Estonian State.

I hear you are stupid troll who has two mothers and you "make love" to your mothers regularly. Your sentence is same much worth as is believing in stories told during Sauna visits... assuming you know what Sauna is.
Moderator Action: Flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I know nothing about Estonia but it would have to be pretty bad to be worse than Turkey in the human rights department. Turkey isn't in the EU though.

I know nothing about Mongols besides that they used to pillage. They don't live in USA tho. //Useful argument, if you are interested read this.

I've heard that Finnish and Estonian are pretty difficult languages.

Grammar
Estonian has no fewer than 14 cases, which makes it very difficult for foreigners to learn proper Estonian. ...

Quote is from here
Wikipedia, Estonian language

Oh yeah, well lets begin by it being a source, transit and destination country for trafficked individuals. And then the majority of Estonian-Russians are hookers (like 60% of all Estonian hookers are russian*** http://www.tai.ee/failid/Prostitutio...onia._ingl.pdf) because of discriminatory barriers to getting real jobs.
(As compared to Soviet and Russian empire times, when only 8% of Estonian prostitutes were Russian, 90% Estonian)

Uh, it is not difficult to get work in USA when not knowing a word in English? Well, I should go there then and talk everyone using Estonian only. Is that what you are sayin'?

So that is the cost of discrimination, the other cost is that the discrimination teaches Estonians that violence against minorities is appropriate! Such that in the rare event that an African student visits Estonia, he is attacked by skinheads throwing rocks! http://www.ucsj.org/news/foreign-stu...ized-skinheads

I bolded out important word. As you know how to google (I assume its the search engine you use, sorry if it is not) google what is "a skinhead."

Of course such policies are encouraged because it is a "naturalization" of the Russian minority into the :Estonian Ethnicity! skinheads are just a byproduct

So let me get it right.

Russians assimilation into Estonian culture according to Tekee

Spoiler :

Russian -> naturalization -> Estonian
-> Skinehead -> ?
Facts Verified by Tekee

I thought the anti-Russian sentiment was stronger in Latvia? Haven't they made getting citizenship there for Russian speakers very difficult/impossible?

Russian-dislike is high in most ex-soviet countries.

------------

Thanks to #Nes crew for giving a reason to close this thread!

EDIT:
Reference to Russian ethic - Tekee seemed to use Russians as minority population reference.
Reference to Iraq/Iraqis - first nation that came into my mind, not planned as an insult - no offense please.

 

[NovaKart]

I just read up on Estonia on Amnesty International. According to them there are language police that make sure workers can speak Estonian whether the employer asks for it or not. I presume that many of the ethnic Russians in Estonia are people who were actually born there, not immigrants.

One person wrote this to Amnesty:

"I used to work as a taxi driver but lost my job thanks to the Language Inspectorate. They call you to the transport commission for the slightest infraction of the high way code where the ladies from the Language Inspectorate are waiting for you. Everything is well planned. They call only the Russian speakers. They can sack you not because you are a bad worker, not because passengers have been complaining but because you don't know Estonian well. I have three children, a mortgage and an alcoholic husband but nobody cares. I have to pay for language courses and they are not cheap -- two or three monthly salaries. I don't have a job and I cannot pay for the Estonian language courses. How am I going to live? Isn't this discrimination?"

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...ec-44f1-bd48-5ca8cc355d1f/eur510012007en.html

I don't mean to pick on Estonia, many countries have problems with human rights. I mentioned Turkey before. It would be useless to compare which place is worse but just to give a little comparison: In Turkey the Kurdish language was actually banned in the past and earlier this year a singer was arrested for singing a song in Kurdish at a festival. There's also a serious problem with freedom of speech in Turkey.

 

[Gangor]

I suppose that to Estonians, Russian speakers are remnants of the Communist era, and would be better off leaving the country. I sympathise with this. However I also doubt that Russia would take them back, as they provide an excellent excuse for later invading Estonia, so it puts everyone in a difficult position.

 

[Moonbat]

Not defending Estonia here, I think they're in the wrong here, but the heck is it with the Russians hardon with anything about Estonia? I know the Russian state is using propaganda against Eastern European states leaning more towards the west than ever before, but this is just silly. Can't the Russian people seriously see through all this manipulation? Russia is becoming a dangerously undemocratic country.

 

[Yeekim]

So that the best (or worst) our resident troll could dig up about Estonia was a nine year old newspaper story about a guy who received threats from skinheads?

I think I am pretty cool with that.
EDIT 2: Although I guess that goes in nicely with 4-year old report based on even older data.
EDIT:

So much that even Amnesty calls Estonia the worst human rights abuser in Europe

And exactly where do they say that?

 

[Arwon]

I just read up on Estonia on Amnesty International. According to them there are language police that make sure workers can speak Estonian whether the employer asks for it or not. I presume that many of the ethnic Russians in Estonia are people who were actually born there, not immigrants.

One person wrote this to Amnesty:

"I used to work as a taxi driver but lost my job thanks to the Language Inspectorate. They call you to the transport commission for the slightest infraction of the high way code where the ladies from the Language Inspectorate are waiting for you. Everything is well planned. They call only the Russian speakers. They can sack you not because you are a bad worker, not because passengers have been complaining but because you don't know Estonian well. I have three children, a mortgage and an alcoholic husband but nobody cares. I have to pay for language courses and they are not cheap -- two or three monthly salaries. I don't have a job and I cannot pay for the Estonian language courses. How am I going to live? Isn't this discrimination?"

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...ec-44f1-bd48-5ca8cc355d1f/eur510012007en.html

I don't mean to pick on Estonia, many countries have problems with human rights. I mentioned Turkey before. It would be useless to compare which place is worse but just to give a little comparison: In Turkey the Kurdish language was actually banned in the past and earlier this year a singer was arrested for singing a song in Kurdish at a festival. There's also a serious problem with freedom of speech in Turkey.

This is quite concerning, Yeekim.

 

[Yeekim]

This is quite concerning, Yeekim.

Mostly because it is fiction.
1) There is a number of government-sponsored free language courses. On top of that, if one wants to take additional paid courses, s(he gets a refund upon passing an exam.
2) A taxi driver does not need to speak Estonian "well". S/he needs to to be able to communicate on B1 level, according to this classification.

 

[emzie]

Language police are always a good thing.