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Ethiopia and the Orthodoxy Deadline

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Mxzs, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    One of the sub-conditions for Ethiopia's UHV is to convert to Orthodoxy within 5 turns of its being founded.

    Does anyone have any hints or insights about how to discover Ethics first when playing Ethiopia, because that is the only strategy I know of that guarantees that Ethiopia gets an Orthodox city within that deadline. I have tried multiple strategies, and I always come up short.

    If there isn't a way to discover Ethics first, is there some other strategy for getting Orthodoxy to spread to one of your cities? I mean, other than "Open borders to Rome, Egypt, Byzantium, etc." which only increases your percentage without making it a sure thing.

    And if the Orthodoxy spread is supposed to be a chance-based happenstance, what is the rationale for including it as a sub-condition?
     
  2. Orbii

    Orbii Warlord

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    You can use the Great Prophet's religion spread feature ("Great Mission") to spread a religion in its historical area, even if you're still pagan. This feature was added when Ethiopia's UHV was revised.

    Therefore, the goal is to build a Stele and run two Priests ASAP. I generated my Great Prophet in 65 AD and Orthodoxy was founded in 165 AD (Monarch/Normal difficulty).

    This approach is generally independent of difficulty and start set-up, but I imagine at Paragon you might have a strong Greece or Carthage founding Orthodoxy too early. I found my capital 1SE of start (on the Cow; as seen in the below screencaps, this is necessary to maximize core coverage with your two cities (the western city was flipped from Egypt with one Great Engineer settled, which is not necessary for this strat -- I would found it anyways)) and there were probably two to three turns where I could have started running priests earlier --- I was prioritizing growth.

    Also, while the capital is generating a Great Prophet, have it build a Settler and settle on the Yemeni incense so you don't need to conquer Sanaa (Aden founded 1 turn prior to this screencap and 1 turn prior to Sanaa spawn).

    This start-up clearly is setup to complete the (time-sensitive parts) first two UHV's --- you can see the workers finishing the Plantations on the Incenses and I believe in 3 turns UHV1 is done.

    Great Prophet Functions on Orthodoxy Founding Turn (Ignore the Spread to Aden --- that is not necessary to use this function)
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-11-17_13-9-6.png


    After Great Mission
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-11-17_13-10-32.png
     
    Hickman888 and soul-breathing like this.
  3. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    Thanks for the explanation on the Great Prophet trick. I had no idea that was possible! Awesome!

    This is my first time playing Ethiopia, and I found it quite easy. After a first, quick and dirty run-through to get a feel about the timing, I had no trouble completing the first two UHVs (after using Worldbuilder to give myself Orthodoxy, that is), and I met the third one as well. I'm not sure if that was luck, though. Is there any further advice on meeting the third UHV? I conquered and converted those Native cities that weren't Orthodox; I spread Orthodoxy to the Congo; and I built and reserved a stock of Settlers and Missionaries to settle at the last minute to sweep past the Islamic score.

    I don't know what else might be done, short of trying to conquer the Egyptian cities, which doesn't seem a likely strategy given Ethiopia's lack of Iron.
     
  4. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    This is actually quite easy even on highest difficulties. Ethiopia has elephants and even the Shotelais are good to conquer. They can get Guerilla III for withdrawals or city raider promotion to attack cities. Egypt is rich (fully built cities, infrastructure, wonders, resources, settled GPs on higher difficulties). You can take some southern cities when Egypt or Rome collapses.
    Some of these might flip later to Arabs, but you can evacuate troops before that, refuse flip, start war and wait for Arabs to come. Only units in flipzones will desert to them and the desertions will end after a few turns. Then you can take the whole Egypt.
    In fact, Arabs are pretty weak in the beginning. Except the initial troops they will have archers in cities and AI cannot use units properly, unfortunately. They got a few good ones, but you can have strength in numbers and cities are a trap, it is easy to take them with CR promotions and destroy the defending units.
    I tried it less than a year ago, I think, some things might have changed a bit, but stability shouldn't be a problem with the right combination of civics.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    Mxzs likes this.
  5. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    Only the religion issue is random in the highest dificulty levels. Sometimes Orthodoxy might get founded way too early and you lose UHV before you start. Or it gets founded around the same time you start and even with open borders, roads and everything it won't reach you in 8 turns (epic speed) and you can't generate GP so quickly. It's OK, just restart...
     
  6. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    The games I've played have had the Elephants wedged deep in Egyptian territory--some cities built way down south--so I hadn't even thought about using Elephants. Maybe that was just bad starts for me. As for the Arabs, I'm probably still scarred from tangling them in the original RFC and still do my best to avoid them.
     
  7. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    Actually you can take the southernmost cities, these won't flip to Arabs. If independent (after collapse of either Egyptians or Romans), it should be doable with Shotelais and maybe catapults. Especially after turning independent there is a window of opportunity as the new independent units are not fortified. And IIRC, the elephants resource is next to the Core tiles, which should be settled anyway (to get the most population in core). That core city was pretty productive for me, I used it to build an army.
     
  8. Mxzs

    Mxzs Prince

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    Well, it depends on how far south you put the south! :p Anything built on the same tile row as the Gold will flip, if I read the map right. At any rate, the city of Abw, which was built on the Gold tile, flipped to the Arabs in the game where I conquered it. And as that is the tile row directly north of Aksum, I tend to interpret all of Egypt as being zoned for Arab flip.

    But I'm definitely inspired to try Ethiopia again and try a more aggressive northern strategy.
     
  9. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    in Emperor the Egyptians often push even further south. City 1 NW of the cotton won't flip (and it works oasis in desert). 1 tile to the north is also safe. Plus I think I defended some city on Nile against them just south of the Gold latitude probably (but they never attacked).
    Sometimes they even build a city in my core which flips to me.
    Also in a lot of games Egyptians found Orthodoxy, that means you get a holy city much later.
     
  10. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    Inspired me to start another game of Ethiopia (Emperor/Epic) but in Civilizations Reborn modmod this time. It's pretty similar to main mod, only the Republic (important for Ethiopia) is changed and there are more civs. There isn't +1 food per specialist, nor -1 for improvements, there are only free specialists in capital per culture level.

    Anyway, I wanted to post the screenshot to show what cities flip to Arabs. Egyptians founded city of Men in my core, which flipped to me and I moved my capital 1 SE to the cow tile (I didn't want to lose the fish and other water tiles to Arabs or Yemeni who will later come). That (with the Greek invasion) caused Egyptians to collapse soon and they never founded Orthodoxy. This gave me time to raise the Great Prophet. I had the gold tile, but not the ivory and the independents still seemed pretty strong (horses etc.) with me pursuing all the goals at once. Even plague came in 160 AD. Attacked the ivory city around 400+ AD with two catapults plus a few Shotelais and after the bombardment and just before the assault they armed themselves with 4 crossbows :) They weren't fortified though, so after a few sacrifices we won (the last archer conquered the city). The second independent city was easier but then the Arabs came, so I accepted the flip of Aden and that was all. Might try them now with Elephants and Vassalage/Conquest or wait for Mamluks who will spawn in Egypt in 960 AD or so.
    The two conquered cities are small here, but these are not bad. One has Cotton+Ivory and the other one had a settled Great Prophet, helping with UHVs.
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
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