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[NFP] Ethiopia First Look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

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    On first watch: This design is so absolutely my jam in so many ways (Massive Faith Economy! Defensive-focused but not offensively-hampered boni! Hills bias! So, so much synergy with Faith-focused strategies for not just Religious Victory, but Culture and Science as well! Voidsingers-synergy! Monumentality! Well-executed African civ!) that on paper it looks to be my new Main.

    On second watch: This could make a TSL map so, so interesting. Nearby Nubia's Pítatí rush, and probably having some early difficulty meeting both her and Cleopatra's agendas while pumping out your settlers, but extra combat strength in hills could keep you alive. Egypt and Mail will both love your international trade routes, and Mali will particularly love your faith/gold from that synergy. Divine Spark can help you propel early faith into early religion and get Kongo doing a lot of your work for you as a worthwhile ally (though Mvemba a Nzinga will still be annoying until you manage that) and Shaka, well... Kongo should at least provide a buffer between Ethiopia and Zulu.

    Also, that gold-on-white theme we see for Magnificence Catherine is a color scheme I've been waiting for for years. If France already had that as an alt, I haven't seen it yet, and I love it.
     
  2. Daigotsu Max

    Daigotsu Max Chieftain

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    As someone who likes visually distinctive unique improvements, I am pretty delighted with the rock-hewn church!
     
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  3. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

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    Me too! And while I know that hills are going to be more often the site for them than volcanic soil, I love the idea of getting tons of (increasing) food yields out of them in addition to massive faith.
     
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  4. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I certainly don't want to be in an underground building when the lava comes though.
     
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  5. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    I found it indispensable when playing Spain.
     
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  6. 679x

    679x Warlord

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    This forum got me excited for Mehal Sefari leader UU.. Too bad, I think it's kind of fun to have more than one UU on a civ, even if they aren't that impactful. Makes it feel more 'personalized', if that makes sense - that is to say, armies are more tailored to match the civ, rather than everyone having the same musketmen with the same name and same strengths. It would also help Ethiopia go for a domination victory as well, further adding to one of the coolest parts of this civ IMO: the diverse bonuses to go for multiple victory types.

    I did also think that the archaeological museum & archaeologist faith purchases were kind of odd, though, since it's not like the civ gets any bonuses toward artifacts or anything over art museums. The only reason you'd go for archaeology instead of art is because archaeology is cheaper with this civ. I suppose it means you're playing the map more than most civs, since you have hill-related bonuses, a unique improvement, and now also are incentivized to dig up antiquity sites around the map rather than just building great artist points which has no functionality relating to terrain (other than if you have space to build a theatre square).

    All in all, I think I have to play the civ to see how I like it. I'm glad the civ has a lot of synergy in its bonuses, even though the archaeology part is a tad questionable in its synergy. Those rock-hewn churches do seem to produce a hell of a lot of faith, though.
     
  7. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

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    I think sometimes design in this game's expansions comes from designers wanting to push unpopular strategies and/or improve aspects that are undervalued. (I used to see this a lot in Netrunner as well, when they'd go all-in on something like Weyland's "Advance Only When Rezzed" mechanic despite nobody liking that in a game about bluffing, but that's a tangent.)

    Here, I think this is well-done. Archeologists and Archeological Museums are under-utilized, because Art Museums just tend to be more convenient in many ways. Ethiopia is in a region of the world with tons of archeological riches. And by the time Archeologists and their museums come around, having something to spend all that faith on will be a huge boon. And yeah, playing the map is a bonus too.
     
  8. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    I wouldn't have minded seeing them get a little more on there - like, "can purchase those 2 with faith for half the usual faith-buying price", just to give them a slight extra edge over what anyone else could get with Jesuit Education/Monumentality Golden Age.
     
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  9. The Civs 6

    The Civs 6 Warlord

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    This faction design is terrible.
    • Any time I see +x% (so Korea, Maya) that's a huge red flag for lazy, boring faction design.
    • Why does faith lead to science and culture? What is the flavor for that? Why hills? What interesting gameplay choices does that lead to, since we all know that hill cities are already pretty good?
    • A bonus to trade routes based on bonus resources? Really? Not only is this bonus not really impactful (2-3 faith extra, less than the midgame policy card gives you), but it's hard to understand, which I dislike.
    • Faith buying archaeological museums? Really? Did anyone ever think that the archaeology mechanic was really interesting and worth investing more time into?
    • Another boring faith UI - and this is by far the most interesting and striking part of the Civ design.
    How does this Civ play uniquely compared to others? If you are going a faith-based victory, well, you want faith! So you just get more perks for getting a resource that you already were going to maximize. Someone help me see the other side, other than "I like faith games so now I'm going to be able to play a Civ with a supercharged faith game."

    I am starting to regret having put $40 into this thing.
     
  10. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    I think because of real world Ethiopian geography.


    I think it is one the best "mini-games" in Civ6; I always have fun to wake my inner Schliemann and dig my way through my own or even better other civs lands :D
     
  11. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    I've seen a couple of people say this, but I don't know. While you've got plenty to help your faith income, you're already going to be buying archaeological museums, archaeologists, missionaries and apostles, since their rock-hewn churches give appeal maybe more naturalists than usual, rock bands if you're going for cultural victory, maybe even districts if you decide to promote Moksha... there's only so much to go around, and I'm not sure I'd want to spend faith on units, too. I'll probably build the Intelligence Agency to help keep up in science and maybe swipe a few great works (assuming Firaxis finally patches this).

    With the bonuses to being able to take advantage of archaeology and the tourism and appeal bonuses to their rock-hewn churches I see myself using them for cultural victory more than a religious victory. Having bonuses to getting artifacts and a UI that grants both tourism and appeal (for more natural parks if you plan ahead of time) seems like a unique and fun combination to me. I might not even build holy sites as them... how many civs currently in the game have unique tile improvements that can give that much faith?
     
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  12. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    Being able to get the effects of those without needing to put the effort in to do so is a big bonus in its own right. You might as well say that Scythia should get a bigger bonus because anyone can build two cavalry units if they want to. This strikes me as a very boring design, but also a very powerful one.

    Yes, that was my first thought, but I suspect it's inevitable. There are a lot more civs that people want to see represented than there is design space for, especially since there are no new mechanics with the New Frontier Pass as there are in a full expansion. From what we've seen so far, the NFP civs are pretty much just mods for fan favourite civs with an official stamp of approval.

    Most civ abilities aren't that literalistic, so Ethiopia isn't unusual in that regard. Science and culture makes sense for Menelik since he was a moderniser. There's no flavour reason to tie that to faith, they just chose something that synergised with the civ's other abilities - that's a sign of good if not very imaginative design, not bad design.

    The flavour is that Ethiopia is largely at high elevations - that Firaxis had this in mind is evident from calling Menelik's agenda 'Ethiopian Highlands'

    Being able to buy archaeologists isn't exactly exploring the mechanic. Archaeology was a welcome addition to Civ V - the only issue with it in Civ VI is that tourism has no value outside cultural victory efforts, so you're less incentivised to use the archaeology system. Not having to devote time to producing archaeologists is an upside.

    Is there such a thing as an interesting UI? By definition UIs are tile improvements, and the primary purpose of tile improvements is just to produce a resource. The only real interest of UIs is that a diversity of them is graphically interesting, and the rock church definitely manages that.

    It doesn't play uniquely, which is the issue I have with it, but I do understand why it might be appealing. An issue with Civ 6 is that religion doesn't link to other game systems very well, and it's pretty common for those of us who dislike religious gameplay to have a lot of incidental surplus faith that has little use most of the time. A civ that can make at least a bit more use of faith it gathers incidentally - and that, alternatively, can play a culture game with a faith focus without having to prioritise Holy Sites - is making more use than most of the basic game resources.
     
  13. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    What were you expecting?

    People like to play overpowered civs and Ethiopia is like having PIngala in every city if you think of 1 faith equal to 1 science or 1 culture. Build the Oracle and buy great people with faith to fill up those slots in the Old God monument.
     
  14. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    You'd be taken more seriously if you weren't constantly complaining for the sake of it. Seriously, are you even trying?

    Compared to what? Have you ever played a 4x game?



    Great logic. "This part of the game isn't very good, so we should ignore it even further."

    It looks awesome and does exactly what it is supposed to.
     
  15. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    Is there some historical reasoning for the bonuses of the abilities? Like did Ethiopians have some ancient Axum artifacts, because of the museum bonus?

    And what is Menelik's council of ministers?

    I know oromo are group of people living in Ethiopia and I have seen pictures of real life rockhewn church.

    The civ looks very cool but I actually find Gran Colombia my favorite so far.
     
  16. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

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    What....

    So +% yields are no good, bonuses based on resources are no good, bonus resources in general are no good, archaeology is no good, faith in general also no good. Dislike the faith leading to science and culture due to the historical context of the items, but also hills for matching the historical context and not the gameplay. There seems to be very little gameplay that you would have accepted.
     
  17. thecrazyscot

    thecrazyscot Spiffy

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    Out of curiosity, what civs do you consider to have good design?
     
  18. tiamats4esgares

    tiamats4esgares Warlord

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    All I can say is "meh".

    I won't be purchasing this pack.
     
  19. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Museum_of_Ethiopia
    They do. They also have on display "Lucy" one of the oldest fossils of a hominin family member which includes humans and chimpanzees.
     
  20. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Menelik put in place advisors to help him rule his empire. They were so respected, many of them stayed in place through his two successors' reigns.
     
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