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[NFP] Ethiopia Update Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by sonicmyst, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    ok, yeah i wasn’t sure so that’s good to know.
     
  2. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    At 5:35 in the video, when they create a vampire castle, it has some crazy and weird yields. It's 1 Faith, 5 Gold, 3 Production, and... * Food. What's * Food?
     
  3. FedorWin

    FedorWin Chieftain

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    Also some official (from the same account that posted the video) clarifications about Teddy from deep within the Youtube comments section:
    “If you have the persona packs, only Rough Rider Teddy has the Rough Rider units. If you do not have the persona pack, nothing changes and Teddy remains as-is with his original art and his original abilities, including the unique unit”.
     
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  4. Nerevatar

    Nerevatar Warlord

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    And just when I had given up on NFP they make this and oh-boy did they drag me back! :D THANK YOU FIRAXIS!

    Secret Societies is the kind of stuff that (might) really change up the game. Granted, we don't know how you join them, and that might affect how interesting this will be, but still. Hopefully there will be some kind of hunt/competition/randomness to get in, and not just "Grats, you got the SS civic, now choose whatever you want", since it will then just become a standard choice instead of something were you have to "play the map" or adapt to the hand that the game dealt you.

    But let's go over each of them to see how they could change how the game is played:
    • Hermestic Order: Hunting for those insane leyline spots and going nuts with GPs.
      • Tier 4 is still unknown, so this will be even better / more interesting.
    • Owls of Minerva: Probably the least interesting as-is. Lots of spying, could be interesting but would probably have to tweak the numbers (maybe even more capacity and reduced spy cost to really be able to have spies carry the game?)
      • Tier 4 is still unknown, so this still got potential to become much more interesting.
    • Voidsingers: Bringing the "loyalty game" into focus, making it much more active. Oh and you can even invest into the needed faith without hurting too much, since FPT is converted into other ressources!
    • Sanguine Pact: This makes colonial play incredibly more powerful with the teleport, and just generally giving you a new impactful toy to play around with, and utility to use.
      • The spoken stuff sounded good, but since we didn't get the full textual info on this, it might get even better.
    I can see this really changing up how the game is played, since many of the effects are impactful enough to matter. Now I just really really [...] really hope that the AI can use these features in a reasonable manner, since they are so powerful. Oh, and make this moddable so we can add more societies ourselves.

    I'm sure there will be some mods that make the Secret Societies a bit more "history friendly" for those who want that. It's not like spontaneous healing is new to civ6. Teleporting and surviving against all odds (not being able to die) sounds like any 007-esq movie, so that should be easily re-skinnable. But I, for one, will welcome our new vampire overlords.

    On the topic of Diplomatic Quarter: At first it seemed fairly uninteresting, maybe even obtuse as other have stated, but there is one indirect important effect of this - you now have to invest some production, a district slot and a tile, to get into the city state diplomacy game instead of getting it for free. This actually is, in my opinion, a very good change, and might also help with changing up how the game is played from playthrough to playthrough. I wonder if quests will become more important as another indirect result?

    Now I'll be right back, I have to go throw money at Firaxis.
     
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  5. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    Because in practice, it will probably more worth it to absorb a City-State and its yields than deviate from the standard build most players need to go for to keep up with the AI on higher difficulties.

    I fail to see how not finding time to build a new district contradicts with building a military. Where do you think I'm worried about pulling production from to fit in a new district? Building districts you normally would in the current patch, and building a military to go invade your neighbors, which is the common move you should go for in the early game.

    I mean, you keep talking about "not doing the same old things every game", but there is a concrete meta in Civ VI, whether you like it or not. And you get punished for wildly going off course from that meta. There is an opportunity cost associated with every decision you make in the game, and now the opportunity cost of playing the envoy game is way, way higher. That is inarguable. Does that skew the City-State diplo balance so far off that it might be strictly more worthwhile to use your military to absorb them? I don't know. Maybe. I'm speculating. One of the points of a discussion thread.

    I'm noting that moving a preexisting mechanic behind a district with dubious benefits to your early game build makes the opportunity cost of engaging with that mechanic much higher, which might have a detrimental effect on the gameplay of Civ. This is all first impression stuff. I'm not sure why this is getting such a visceral reaction out of you.
     
  6. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Warlord

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    Vampires.

    Are we allowed to criticize the DLC yet, or is it still too soon? Because the Secret Society mode would've actually been okay. Except... Vampires? Seriously? Even the Aliens you gave Red Death would have been a better "Secret Society", can we trade with them? I'd be perfectly open to a fantasy Civ game, but I'd want it as a separate game and not as a forced addition to the standard one. Sprinkles like these belong on cupcakes, not garlic bread.

    I'm interested in Ethiopia, but not Vampires, and not costumes for Roosevelt and Catherine. Especially when France already has an alt leader, and Roosevelt already has most of those abilities.
     
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  7. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    The yield icons display a star when they exceed a certain amount... I think anything over 10. So that castle looks like it’s producing 11+ food.
     
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  8. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    I think SS is fine as a general concept. It consolidates several highly requested ideas like the Illuminati and Lovecraft and vampires into a single cohesive and thankfully optional idea.

    It also shuts down the Romania advocates because they only ever wanted it for Vlad Tepes and vampires. Romania had such a weak history as a unified kingdom or people or any sort of regional influence; including it over something established like Bulgaria or Kievan Rus' or even Albania would have been somewhat insulting to the rest of the Balkans.

    I mean the answer seems obvious now that we've seen her design. She's vicariously representing Florence. Which I find quite odd, because it suggests to me that this design was intended to be an Italian alternate leader in the same way Eleanor has two different designs. But since it is now a France leader, that suggests to me that the idea of Catherine leading Italy or perhaps the entire Italy concept was scrapped. In which case, if including CdM was, as I've long suspected, an attempt to sneak in an Italian alternate leader early on, then much of the whole point of selecting such a contentious leader is obviated. All Magnificence does now is represent an Italy that never happened, or a future Italy that no longer wants anything to do with her.
     
  9. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    It's the part where they mention that envoy bonuses are now directly tied to the Diplomatic Quarter buildings. Meaning you now have to set aside part of your district cap to get envoy yields, which drastically increases the opportunity cost to acquire them. It's actually a massive nerf to City-State diplomacy, at least in the early-game.

    Also, I didn't see your other post, but to respond to the decision between this new district and building a campus/theater/or commercial hub: I think it's always going to be those three districts taking priority. They're just too valuable in the game as it stands. Again, could be wrong, but that's the point of speculating early on.
     
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  10. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    roosevelt has those abilities cuz they’re splitting up his diplo and culture sides. Culture side is becoming ‘Bull Moose’ Teddy and Diplo side is rough rider teddy. He’s also getting new abilities that match with those better

    Did I wish the secret societies had more realistic names, sure, but it’s not like their names are affecting the game. This game mode isn’t really that fantasy
    I agree that there’s a few changes that still have to be made, and picking a alternate skin for Catherine of all ppl is a bit weird (why not cleopatra or trajan? Obviously I’d prefer proper alts but surely Egypt and Rome deserve second LAs over france getting a third, right?), but I’m not complaining about secret societies. When they said it i was going to be fantasy, i was disappointed but the reveal brought me back. It looks really fun and all of these ‘fantasy’ secret societies have real corollaries, i suppose, if not realistic ones:

    Hermetic Society: Free Masons/Alchemists
    Owls of Minerva: Illuminati
    Cultists: I suppose they’re like any cult/devil worshippers
    Vampires: Assassins

    They aren’t intrusively fantasy liek the apocalypse game mode, and unlike that game mode, they have lasting impacts throughout the game, which makes them more fun and impactful.

    I don’t think we should be making the impression that the devs having fun is a bad thing. Maori is a really fun civ to play, even if it’s not necessarily representative of the Maori. Kupe and Pachacuti, despite being designed like memes, have some of the most character of any of the leaders. I don’t want to send them the wrong idea that we don’t like what they’ve produced because this is fun —these game modes can afford to be a bit crazy and a bit unrealistic bcs the game is basically complete.

    There are obviously some outstanding issues—no code release, some bugs, balancing issues, the religious and diplo victories needing some help, but these are things I would guess will be adjusted over time, and I’m fine with that.

    There’s no indication that fantasy is the direction civ will keep going in, and i think acting like it is isn’t good for the game series in a mode which is designed to be optional is not good.
    blood
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  11. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    OK, but:

    1. They announced Apocalypse and Secret Societies before asking for money. So, you were warned. Everyone was warned. They also said that the other game modes are more historical, so you'll probably like them better.
    2. Vampires look like fun.
    3. The new Roosevelt is getting more of the old Roosevelt's abilities, plus some bonuses to envoys. The old Roosevelt is getting new abilities that work with natural parks or something. We don't have the details, yet. Either way, you get a new leader.
    4. Carnival Catherine also looks fun.

    Y'all need to lighten up a bit. It's a game.
     
  12. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    they also specifically said both game modes were fantasy oriented ahead of time...
     
  13. FedorWin

    FedorWin Chieftain

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    I’m wondering how do secret societies’ unique buildings interact with normal unique buildings.
    For example, if you are Arabia who is in the Hermetic order, would you be able to choose between building Madrasas or Alchemical societies in your campuses on a city-by-city basis?
     
  14. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    my hope is it’s a choice, but the alchemists’ society and vault are both flat upgrades over the madraza and bazaar
     
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  15. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Based on the descriptions “all the regular bonuses of X plus more” it leads to think that the society building will replace the base building and existing copies will get upgraded. After all, Trajan could never get Obelisks since his cities all get a free monument. Etc.
    * Yield is when it is 10 or greater. (Might be 11+.) To be fair we have no idea how this benefit operates, like ley lines build up over time.

    I think Vampires are getting too much hate just based on name. The mechanics of these societies should be pretty fun since (assuming a decent distribution) the empires of the world will be playing different from their neighbors.

    As an aside, Ley Lines seem like if you start to runaway with GP they will be the best single tiles out there. But I suspect the special bank giving a trade route with harbor will allow for some absolute economic juggernauts. They haven’t seen the Suguba Abuse I will unleash with bonus culture adjacency...

    The persona pack isn’t about alt leaders. It’s almost certainly a marketing test of the concept of doing variations on the same leader for civ7. This can then be monetized.
     
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  16. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    leylines are decent, but i think the cultists (the society not the unit) could end up being better.

    The cultists make Russia go from great to flat out near impossible to beat. Eleanor goes fr barely relevant to pretty powerful, khmer and poland go from fairly bad and a little bad to usable.

    also i’m gonna be honest. I like the teddy alts, but if this becomes a trend in civ 7, i’m going to flip. If they monatize different versions of the same leader, that’s terrible.
     
  17. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

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    Besides, you may say anything but I must try Cthulu Jadwiga with Reliquaries Belief game :lol:
     
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  18. CivLuvah

    CivLuvah Deity

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    No one warned me about vampires when the Secret Societies mode was announced. I was prepared for F̶r̶e̶e̶m̶a̶s̶o̶n̶s̶, but that is not what we have for this mode.
     
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  19. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    they tweeted out that this would be a fantasy game mode like two weeks ago
     
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  20. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    Eh, it's basically what you have. The just called the Assassins Guild "Vampires" and gave them a fun graphic instead.
     
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