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Ethiopia

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Funak, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    +25% Great People rate from each Alliance, and +20% Combat vs civilizations with more cities.

    25% is over the line extreme, I don't even think it actually is that high ingame. A 10% like the old Sweden UA would work fine.
    The combination of these 2 effects make sure you can't really use the 20% combat bonus offensively without suffering from your friends hating you, thereby removing your extra GPPs. I also think this GPP effect works like the swedish effect, in that it works both ways, if it doesn't then it really should.


    Unique Unit: Mehal Safari

    This unit got really solid bonuses, it is actually great, and I don't think I've ever use it for anything. I don't really play ethiopia as an agressor, and getting attacked at the specific point where you have your Safari up is pretty rare. But on paper they are pretty solid atleast.

    Unique Building: Stele - faith per population monument

    1Faith per pop is too much, 1Faith for every 2 pop would probably work fine however, would encourage growing your cities(not that you really need encouragement for that :D). All around pretty damn solid
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    Making it 10%, like the Swedish UA, is fine, and should balance it out.
    G
     
  3. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    I think I'm going to replace Ethiopia's ability with the trait added by Jamforce – combat bonus versus civs with higher population. This fits nicely with CBP's focus on pop growth, and helps Ethiopia avoid the 'too many cities' debacle of empire growth. The free Engineer is nice, and reflects upon Ethiopia's brief modernization in the 19th century.

    G
     
  4. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    This still suffers from the UA not actually doing anything. In fact it probably suffers even more from it, since as Ethiopia you kinda want to grow your cities.
     
  5. CunningGabe

    CunningGabe Chieftain

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    I agree that it's a little awkward to have a UB that rewards large cities and a UA that rewards small population. Would it be possible to do a combat bonus against civs with larger armies? (i.e. using the "Soldiers" demographic?)
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    Even if it was possible, the Soldiers demographic is horrible imo.
     
  7. CunningGabe

    CunningGabe Chieftain

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    What would be another way to simulate something similar? (i.e. the sort of "underdog" effect)
     
  8. void_genesis

    void_genesis Chieftain

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    Why not just an inbuilt defensive buff to Ethiopia's units in friendly territory? This also allows them to go on defensive missions to help protect their allies. It overlaps/synergises with Himeji castle and the great wall though. I like the idea of Ethiopia being a really difficult nut to crack if you want to take it on, and this also synergises with them benefitting from having allies and friends.

    Something more active would be more fun though provided the AI can handle it. What about units take zero or half damage while fortified or healing? No historic reason but I could see it being really fun for your playstyle and could be used in a few different ways.
     
  9. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    Overlapping with Shoshone pretty badly aswell
     
  10. void_genesis

    void_genesis Chieftain

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    Ooh....just had a better idea. What if the units of Ethiopia get a constant healing rate in friendly territory. This is almost an anti-pillaging mode where they can defend themselves and their allies really effectively against aggressors, synergising with building friendships and allies.
     
  11. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    Ok I'm going to mention what I felt was the biggest problem with Ethiopia, and most of the recent suggestions. They are all so damn defensive that you could just die. Purely defensive bonuses are extremely boring, all you can do with them is defending(duh).
    That's why defensive bonuses usually have multiple uses, or are backed up with something else. For example, Shoshone have a defensive UA, 15% extra combatstrength in your own territory, but they also have a unique scout and the ability to grab extra land when settling, meaning you can use your defensive UA to forwardsettle like crazy and still be relatively safe.

    On the other hand Ethiopia have bonuses for staying compact and building tall cities, and in my opinion tall cities. They have nothing that really helps them to win the game, so realisticly the other civs have no reason to attack them in the first place they can just sit back with their own bonuses that helps the win the game leaving ethiopia sitting with a dead UA.
     
  12. CunningGabe

    CunningGabe Chieftain

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    But some people like playing tall, and having an ability that discourages others from messing with them. If the UA is preventing others from attacking you, then it's not a dead UA!
     
  13. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    It is when you have no unique that actively helps you win the game
     
  14. Lord Tirian

    Lord Tirian Erratic Poster

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    Tall still has a lot of population, that's why basing it on cities sounds more solid and more explicitly rewards playing tall. That really feeds into a tall builder's play style. Unless we make it a bonus that kicks in against enemies who either have more pop or more cities, makes it a bit more powerful against a tall neighbour.

    I agree, though, that a strong deterrent alone isn't much fun and the UA needs at least some reward for that. Bonus GP rate is good. If we want to make it less dependent on alliances, having some rider bonus on research agreements could also work (free hammers equal to city size in all cities after completing a RA?).

    No need to re-invent the wheel, though.
     
  15. void_genesis

    void_genesis Chieftain

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    I think a GP boost is a nice UA that can be applied to a play style focused on tall cities and used toward any victory condition.

    Basing it on number of allies is also interesting but the AI diplomacy is a bit too wobbly to rely on that mechanism alone. Could we make it possible for Ethiopia to donate great people to other civilisations and force them to be allies for a number of turns? This creates a virtuous loop where more allies creates more GP, some of which are used for victory, the rest of which are used to get more allies. The number of turns of alliance can be adjusted to balance.

    For further synergy you could make the UU generate golden age points when they defeat an enemy, and GPP rates increase during golden ages, as a nice active effect in the mid/late game. I could see this being really useful if there is an aggressive conquest AI that everyone hates, once Ethiopia is established they can crank out some UUs and go knock them down a notch. Maybe make the UU stronger on defence but weak at attacking and taking cities to balance it out.
     
  16. pandasnail

    pandasnail Chieftain

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    Noticed just now that the UU starts with Drill. I give this promotion only to attack attack attack units, and from a thread a few weeks ago it seemed like others agreed. I don't think that's the way we are supposed to play Ethi, and it def not the way I've seen the AI do it. With two other promotions (Homeland and Capital Guard), I can't really recommend another real good promotion, but maybe switch to Shock 1 instead? Or the bonus on hills The Picts get?
     
  17. Charos

    Charos Chieftain

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    Has anyone has issues with the Ethiopia AI snowballing out of control in every game? I play on YNAEMP Giant Earth, and even when I give them as many competitive neighbors as I can (zulu, songhai, egypt) they still get an enormous lead early on. In my current game, it's 1030 AD and they're in 1st place with nearly double the score of the 2nd place civ (Arabia, who got a very strong start).
     
  18. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    In my games the AI Ethiopia usually seems to get itself into a bunch of early to midgame wars and fall behind, but when I tried them 3 days ago I pretty much ran the game over. Hard to tell, really.
     
  19. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    Ethiopia always snowballs/runaways/is strong for me too on communitas. While it's the case for almost all AIs who manage to get a religion, Ethiopia is the most consistent. Always does well.
     
  20. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 Chieftain

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    Etiopia is usually good. To bad for them they don't get the same levels of production as me. Not to mention they just Wonderspam.
     

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