EU fires shot in new Cold War

[test_specimen]

About time they find a way to stop being spied upon by the US.

How come I'm the one being blamed for my thread titles ("Moore's new movie banned in the US") when you yourself make a thread title that is so ridiculously off topic?

 

[Hitro]

Come on, we can just admit that we're out to kill them. Nobody will believe him anyway, thanks to all that ridiculing of supposed 'conspiracy theories'. Thank you, Fox Mulder!

 

[test_specimen]

Come on, we can just admit that we're out to kill them. Nobody will believe him anyway, thanks to all that ridiculing of supposed 'conspiracy theories'. Thank you, Fox Mulder!

I heard Monaco got "the bomb" just yesterday on my secret channels of hyper-encrypted information.

 

[CurtSibling]

Yep.

Europe wants nothing more than to build a giant robot to crush the USA.

Just like in Wild Wild West.

 

[Verbose]

Actually the wonderful world of international espionage seems a bit like the trading game in CivIII. You get hold of something useful, you trade it. If you want to now "useful things" (mostly secret) you need to have something to trade it for (also secret). It's only the US that's big enough to try to be entirely self dependant (and carrying the Commonwelth).

Of my countries, I know for a fact that the French have something similar to the ECHELON only on a much smaller scale. We are listening in on the US as much as possible, and I'm quite sure we trade anything useful for info from others.

As far as Sweden is concerned, after spying first on the Soviets and then on the Russians for 50 years, we're actually quite good at it. Lots of electronic surveillance by the FRA (Försvarets Radioanstalt) and fieldagents, who get picked up regularily by the Russians. Big stink, lots of hard words and everything goes back to normal. (I don't think anybody notices what Sweden does except the Russians.) This is the only kind of espionage Sweden engages in it seems. It's a matter of specialisation. We spy on the Russians and trade what we find for other kinds of info. It has been going on since the end of WWII, when "neutral" Sweden photographed every damn Soviet radar installation on the Baltic coast, fed it to the Brits who fed it to the US. We also sent hundreds of agents across the Baltic, mostly esthonians, in a joint effort with the British in the 50's. To bad Kim Philby and his lot were tipping of the KGB, so these guys were all met by a little welcoming commitee as soon as they stepped on to the beach.

Anyway, everybody spies on everybody. Spying on your allies is vitally important, so we all do it. This time it has been officially declared that it's being done, but that's the only real difference. (Oh, and the fact that the US doesn't necessarly always win the spy-game, which would seem to be the more upsetting thing.)

 

[Serutan]

A good ally of the US is someone who let's the US spy on him ?

Usually. Unless you're Israel, in which case you're allowed unlimited
spying on us.

 

[Bobo the Ape]

@Nico92

By the way, if the CIA and the NRA were wasting less time in stealing European Industries secrets, maybe they would be able to think about the security of their own country... avoiding stuff like the September, 11th.

What a ridiculous statement. I could also say that if Europe spent less time whining about America and more concentrating on their own security then the Madrid bombings would have been stopped. I could say that but it would be as ridiculous as your statement.

Do you even know what the NRA is? I doubt it if you believe that they are spying on Europe when they should be performing counter-intelligence operations in the Middle East. But I guess it's just Americans that are brainwashed by their media.

@Verbose

Apart, why are (almost) only Europeans commenting on this? Any Americans who would like to add something?

Well I can't speak for all Americans but I for one could care less. Even if America isn't the most powerful entity in the world who cares? The US became the biggest economy in the world with a policy of isolation and a small military.

Even if the US drops from the top economic spot all that will mean is that the global pie is getting bigger and that while the US share may be smaller relatively speaking its absolute size will be bigger than it is today.

If militarily we're not at the top then we would still be much too big to push around. Similar to China and the US today. So again......who cares? Actually it would probably be good. No more domestic push for US to be global cop.

I also don't see this technology as any threat to the US anyway.

Anyway, everybody spies on everybody. Spying on your allies is vitally important, so we all do it. This time it has been officially declared that it's being done, but that's the only real difference. (Oh, and the fact that the US doesn't necessarly always win the spy-game, which would seem to be the more upsetting thing.)

Wisdom! But I would say that since we don't know where the US and EU really stand technollogy wise and the fact that this technology is years from becoming viable (if ever) it's hard to claim victory or loss for anyone yet.

 

[polymath]

"Do you even know what the NRA is?" - Bobo

Er, the National Rifle Association?

 

[IglooDame]

"Do you even know what the NRA is?" - Bobo

Er, the National Rifle Association?

Yeah, but he was on too good a roll to tell him that he meant the NSA...

 

[Bobo the Ape]

@polymath

Er, the National Rifle Association?

Very good! Now tell me why his post made no sense.

@Igloo

Yeah, but he was on too good a roll to tell him that he meant the NSA...

Probably. But with the amount of anti-US propoganda around the world I wouldn't be surprised if many in Europe thought the NRA was an official law enforcement wing of the US government. I've heard crazier on this board.

Anyway the true idiocy of his post was in talking about 9-11 was caused by the CIA spying on Europe.

 

[samildanach]

Anyway, everybody spies on everybody. Spying on your allies is vitally important, so we all do it. This time it has been officially declared that it's being done, but that's the only real difference. (Oh, and the fact that the US doesn't necessarly always win the spy-game, which would seem to be the more upsetting thing.)

Agreed. The reason that the british and american intelligence communities are such good buddies, while latterly due to cold war necessity, was mainly to stop paranoia kicking a war off between the British empire and the U.S.A.
Encryption is a sensitive business and an unbreakable european code would be highly provocative. Britain and america are very easy to spy on as demonstrated by the Soviets IIRC at one time both the heads of the American and British counter intelligence were working for the KGB

 

[De Lorimier]

Oh, but I've forgotten, they're our allies!

Needless to say we better damn well be working on countermeasures to this.

Welcome to the real world SN!
Your allies were spied on by your government for years and you didn't scream Cold War then did you?

 

[Duddha]

I'm waiting for SN's response. Should be interesting

 

[CurtSibling]

Before the USA leaps into a new cold war, they had best deal with the current hot wars first.

@SN;

I think you had better read up on who blew up the WTC and Pentagon,
before you level your (self)righteous wrath at the countries that are on your side.

You will find it was not the UK, Germany or France.

It was the animals who scream jihad from the top of burned-out Humm-Vees and behead their prisoners for kicks.

Get my meaning?

 

[Mise]

You only need a spy or prisoner to get the codes. Waste of time imho

Actually, it is impossible to intercept these messages without disturbing it, i.e. you can't "tap" the signal and listen in without them knowing about it, because detecting the photons changes them. I can't remember the specifics, I read about it about a year and a half ago, but basically, intercepting it would change the signal. And don't think you can just intercept the signal, then retransmit it, cos you can't! The entire stream is matched for consistency or something like that I don't know. But basically, this system is completely fool-proof.

Now with this photon encoding, wouldn't it make it fairly easy for your enemies to simply disturb your signal? Maybe they don't want the message, they just don't want you to get the message.

It's as easy to disturb any signal though. The point of espionage is to steal secrets without being detected. This system makes that literally impossible.

 

[stormbind]

It's only the US that's big enough to try to be entirely self dependant (and carrying the Commonwelth).

The US relies heavilly on importing European university graduates. I wouldn't call that self-sufficient.

What do you mean by Commonwealth?

 

[stormbind]

... basically, this system is completely fool-proof.

History repeats itself, and I do believe you are now repeating Germany's blind faith

It's as easy to disturb any signal though. The point of espionage is to steal secrets without being detected. This system makes that literally impossible.

Someone on the inside, leaking the data, makes encoding the messages pointless. Blind faith and all that..

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

History repeats itself, and I do believe you are now repeating Germany's blind faith
Someone on the inside, leaking the data, makes encoding the messages pointless. Blind faith and all that..

In theory, this encryption method is by it's very definition unbreakable. Of course you're right to say that human intelligence would render it useless, but as far as intercepting and decoding messages goes, it wouldn't just be really hard, but actually 100% impossible. I don't understand it at all myself, but that's the theory.

 

[Panda]

This is an effort to cope with Echelon," said Christian Monyk, the director of quantum technologies at the Austrian company ARC Seibersdorf Research GmbH and overall coordinator of the project.

Damn ungrateful Austrians Without the help of the US during WW2 they all would be speaking German.

 

[De Lorimier]

Damn ungrateful Austrians Without the help of the US during WW2 they all would be speaking German.

Funniest...Post...Ever!