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Europa Universalis IV

Discussion in 'All Other Games' started by MoreEpicThanYou, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Incompatible with all the bolded mods?

    I cannot download from the workshop, so is there another place to download 1.5e from?
     
  2. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Trade routes *might work*
    BTI *might work*
    Indestructible Buildings *might* work, but will override any building changes from the mod (one of them being that less buildings are destroyed upon conquest)
    Ruler Traits is *highly unlikely* to work, since this mod does also have ruler traits and the overlapping files will cause missing country modifiers, resulting in CTDs shortly after the game starts

    An easy way to figure out how your chances are is copying the first 3 mods into the From Darkness Folder. If you get any "Override File" warning, they aren't looking so good. If it is for for country_modifiers.txt, they will certainly NOT work. In that case you will have to merge all new country_modifiers into a single file.

    Download link for 1.5f:
    http://www.mediafire.com/download/6bqyqojqrr2wvza/From+Darkness+1.5f.rar
     
  3. calad

    calad Emperor

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    I like monarch points but problem is that there is very limited way to gain and use them. If civilizations were calculator games then eu4 is random calculator game. There is a huge difference if your ruler is 666 or 000 but even in long run it will most likely be balanced out.
     
  4. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Tbh I don't have much problems with ruler stats.
    Since they changed the die roll function to 2D4-2, the average stat distribution will be much more equal in EU4 anyway.

    A prime example where Monarch Points fail are NI groups: If you pick a MIL NI group first, you actually weaken your military during the early game (because early MIL tech > MIL NIs). And the low Monarch Point limit basicially forces the player to pick NI groups to get rid of excess points they'd otherwise have to burn on "ahead of time" techs. Another thing is using ADM points for cores and stability. It is just... terrible. It turns every stab hit event into a point-sucking disappointment. In EU3 you also had to use income to boost stability, but money was a lot less important because you couldn't use it to circumvent certain mechanics (like coring or WE reduction). It just took time to recover. In EU4 it is always a bad, bad, bad thing. And lastely, everything is intant in EU4. -3 to +3 stab? Could take years in EU3. Takes 1 days in EU4 if you have the points. 15 WE? No problem, down to 0 with some DIP points! Got 20 inflation, something that took decades to fix in EU3? Nullo problemo, just throw some ADM points at it and instantly shoo it away...

    But I guess I am one of the few people that actually liked magistrates back in EU3. Imho they were a much better system, because they were a single ressource used by all related mechanics and scaled a lot better as the game went on (e.g. by increasing gain from government type) and without screwing with the tech progress.
     
  5. calad

    calad Emperor

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    Exactly. System is very banal and exploitative when you fully understand it. If you want quickly to westernize then in early game dont research at all diplo. tech. It is surprisingly unimportant because ships updates after level 10.

    They could have made gaining and using points more variable. CK2 was period of feudalism and lords. EU4 should have been building more effective goverment, limiting power of monarch and creating institutions. Current system makes only sense if every country were absolut monarch: one ruler determines fate of entire nation. Instead they brought silly national ideas and unique national ideas that simply are unbalanced and ahistorical. For example Mamluks are better traders than Venice, Genoa or Hansa. Historically they were warrior caste in Moslem Egypt.
     
  6. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    Why would EU4 be about limiting the power of the monarch? The time period was more about solidifying the power of the monarchy than destroying it.
     
  7. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Well, even absolute monarchs were quite limited in their actual power, since they had a lot of different factions and groups to deal with (both at court and in the realm). It should certainly not be CK2-like free vassal level, but why not bring back the conflicts between nobility, burghers, clergy and peasants or make rebellions a bit more organized? The chinese faction system is pretty bare-bone, but it can actually be used to model factions in all countries.

    I think MM had a quite interesting concept for internal conflict:
    It had several factions that were trying to increase their power within the country and grant different benefits and penalties depending on their actual influence. The best thing was that it was less about random events and more about player actions. So the system more or less reacted to playstyle.

    A bloody warmonger would steadily increase the influence of his military, which would grant more and more benefits for the military, but also damage all the other aspects of the nation (and iirc once factions held too much power, they actually abused it and had some hefty penalties attached to them).

    The player should have absolute power, but some of his decisions should carry heavy consequences for the country.
     
  8. calad

    calad Emperor

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    I said that it was time of new institutions as well.

    England got parlament. There was French and American revolution and of course there was Renaissance. My point was ruler wasnt anymore alone deciding about everything. Society got more complicated: universities, bureaucracy was re-invented, proto-parties were organized in countries and military officers were educated in Academy.

    Now all points come from monarch. There are buildings, ideas and events but they dont really match very well what I pointed out. If I may say again EU4 makes sense if society jumped from feudalism to absolute monarchy.
     
  9. Yeekim

    Yeekim Moderator Moderator

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    Odd thing is, I agree with everything you said and I still think it is an awesome game...
     
  10. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    ...meh, maybe I already had my fill from EU3 or the beta.

    Guess I had hoped that they would advance the series. But instead we got a big reiteration of the series with only partial innovation. For example, having the old EU3 combat system after seeing the awesome mechanic from CK2 is just sad. We have the same buildings - and some of them are still completely and utterly useless.

    ...but maybe that is the real problem: CK2 had a lot of cool new stuff and nothing got carried over to EU4. So much wasted potential.
     
  11. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    EU4 is much more challenging than EU3 ever was. I don't know why people complain about the A.I being better. It think it is absolutely fun to not win all the times.

    1598, Muscovy to Russia. The Ottomans are nigh unstoppable and have most of central Asia under their protection. Life is difficult for the Yekaterina I. She has been Queen of Russia since she turned 5. I changed government types to admin monarchy while she was a minor to roleplay a coup. It has been pretty fun. She's in her 50's now and the empire has doubled in size and quintupled in power under her.

    Note: Yemeni superpower. Epic Hansa.
    Spoiler :
     
  12. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

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    Yeah, the better AI is one of the more subtle changes that actually have a very large impact on the game.

    I guess most of the difficulty complains come from people who dislike the new coalition / overextension mechanic and are used to steamrolling / mass annexing from EU3. Are these mechanics arbitrary? Yes. Are they better than EU3? YES!
     
  13. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

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    I see the point in a lot of your criticisms, GAGA Extrem. You're right that in a lot of cases you can more or less do things "instantly" or nearly so in EUIV if you so desire. I guess I haven't found that to be an issue because, at least so far, I've not had any need to and thus haven't. I've by and large played war exhaustion the old way, letting it decline slowly (particularly once I got the Optimism idea), and when Austria was getting hammered and spending diplo points to reduce exhaustion, the effect on their diplomatic tech became noticeable. And while yes, with the economic idea your could take direct action to reduce inflation (and perhaps allowing that isn't a great idea), you still have to pursue that path (idea group) in the first place.

    The potential for weakening military via military ideas is an interesting one. I considered that during my game, and in the end I think it's another one of those decisions. At some times, yes, going for the tech will be an obvious choice, but I don't think it's always so clear-cut. Maybe this could be alleviated by getting some bonus just for choosing an idea group. But I don't feel it's really necessary at this point.

    So far, I disagree with the lack of long-term planning, however. I think choosing idea groups really can impact long-term planning. As a relatively small country (now mid-sized), I found myself carefully weighing the impact of going for the Diplomatic Ideas versus military ideas, and later whether I could afford Economic Ideas or should perhaps go Defensive, etc. With strong rivals, it mattered. True, my choices were at times impacted by, for example, a surplus of military points, even though as a Republic I rarely had a military-favoring ruler. But there definitely was long-term investment. And I think rebels are more interesting than in EU3. I've seen a lot more cases where there are enough rebels that you either have to accept their demands/let them enforce them, or commit serious resources to fighting them (which may not always be realistic). Do they matter as much as Vicky2 or CKII? Perhaps not, but as someone who's mostly played EU3, they are more potent. I've definitely had significant internal struggle during the Reformation. IMO diplomatic actions also tend to have longer-term effects in EU4 than EU3. Declining a call to arms no longer just means -25 prestige, but -25 prestige and a very difficult time getting that country to realign with you anytime soon, for example. Sliders were long-term in EU3, but as you said were terribly balanced. Unless I was role-playing, I don't know why I would have chosen +1 Serfdom over -1 Stability in EU3, barring my country absolutely falling apart as it was. And maybe this will change as I play EUIV more, but I have occasionally chosen to lose monarch points in events where I didn't have to.

    My story has progressed to circa 1648. In the late 1500s I finally overcome Austria, having become stronger from conquering Tuscany and taking advantage of Austria's other wars, and by 1610 my northeast border is peaceful. In the interim, circa 1560, I try going Protestant, and nearly immediately realize the errors of my ways as there's no way I can fight the rebellions. Fortunately I'm able to accept the demands of some Catholic rebels, return to the Church, and limit the damage.

    The early 1600s see sparring with Spain, who has reduced France to being less powerful than myself. Though I lose significant armies in the process, in the end Spain leaves too few troops at home, and a coalition of myself, Algiers, the Mamluks, and all their neighbors save Portugal are able to inflict a defeat on them and, for the time being, stop their expansionistic ways in Europe. There also some epic naval battles at Malta and the Balaeres in the process, with the Mamluks and Algerians helping me to duel Spain. The climactic battle saw 56 Spanish ships, with many Galleons, dueling 146 allied ships, primarily Galleys with some small ships, and in the end, the destruction of the Spanish fleet that we'd battled off and on for several years. The Armada was defeated, and not too long afterwards Spain would be defeated.

    Around 1632 I had a large Protestant uprising, comprising some 65,000 troops - more than double the size of my standing army. Although I likely could have defeated them, it would have been quite costly, so in the end I decided to let them enforce their demands (saving myself -50 prestige), and try to make the -10% idea cost and +10% taxes make up for conversion. By 1638, I was seriously questioning this move, and quite nearly went back to Catholicism again when I resumed the game. However, I now believe that everything will work out in the end. And if it doesn't, well, we can always try going back to Catholicism...

    Algiers is my staunchest ally currently, having been allied for about 80 years (including 60 before the alliance auto-broke when I changed religions - I'm not sure why a Sunni country should really care, but they renewed the alliance right away, so no significant harm). Bremen is my new Protestant ally. But perhaps my most interesting ally is Mali, who I initially allied with after the Spanish war to discourage Spain from fighting them again (Mali had actually made a contribution in that war - they had over 90,000 rebels during the war, who bottled up 20,000 Spanish troops deep in Malinese territory). Just a few months ago, Mali started westernizing. I'm not sure quite what caused them to do so, but I'm certainly hopeful that it will help them resist the Spanish in the future, and have sent an army over to help them against the reactionaries. What started as an alliance where I didn't expect to get much in return may end up working out both ways after all. It's also noteworthy since I pretty much never saw AI westernization in EU3.
     
  14. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    1732 in my Russia game. I helped formed the HRE in a massive war in 1707-1711. HRE formed in April 1712. The last Habsburg died in 1713. Russia inherits. The personal union is basically giving me free reign over the world. Combined our armies are capable of fighting all of Europe with a hundred thousand to spare. This power means I can finally challenge the Ottomans and take out Crimea piece by piece. There is some form of super crusade going on right now with France, Spain, Bohemia, Poland, Sweden, etc. all gangbanging the Levant.

    Spoiler :
     
  15. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Which is the country that looks like France's sleeping baby? Sardinia or Avignon?
     
  16. Civ'ed

    Civ'ed I ain't gotta explain a thing

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    Savoy, no?
     
  17. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    Savoy prolly.

    Also, now I can't get the image of it being a baby out of my mind.
     
  18. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Thanks very much!
     
  19. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

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    It looks more like a sleeping pony or a rabbit IMO.
     
  20. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

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    My Brunei game in Opposite Day Mod. It is trippy as all hell. The changed up tech groups really is going to make late game interesting. It is 1484.

    Spoiler :
     

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