Europe to fund new Russian spacecraft?

[Winner]

So the Europe finally realizes it needs a human spaceflight

Plans for Euro-Russian spaceplane

By Helen Briggs
BBC News science reporter, Moscow


The European Space Agency (Esa) is proposing joining forces with Russia to develop a new vehicle for human spaceflight, the Clipper.

The six-person spaceplane would give European astronauts autonomous access to the space station and the Moon.

Esa will ask its member states to fund a 30-40m-euro (£20-27m) preparatory study at its next ministerial meeting.

Russia is planning to replace its ageing Soyuz capsule with the Clipper and is seeking international partners.

The Soyuz has been in operation since the late 1960s, flying cosmonauts back and forth to Salyut, Mir and the International Space Station.

Regarded as the workhorse of Russia's manned and unmanned space fleet, it is one of the most reliable spacecraft ever built.

CLIPPER TIMELINE
2011: First Clipper test flight
2014: Soyuz phased out
2020: First crewed Clipper flight


But Russia is looking to the future and is planning to replace the Soyuz with a new vehicle that would be capable of taking cosmonauts into lunar orbit.

"The objective is to have a vehicle which is more comfortable than the Soyuz capsule which will be used with pilots and four passengers," Alain Fournier-Sicre, head of the Esa permanent mission in the Russian Federation, told the BBC News website.

"It's meant to service the space station and to go between Earth and an orbit around the Moon with six crew members."

People carrier

The Clipper is essentially a "people carrier" designed to transport astronauts, said Alan Thirkettle, head of the Esa's Human Spaceflight Development Department.

"For future exploration, when we have the objective of going to the Moon, it is important to have several possibilities to go there
Alain Fournier-Sicre, Esa "

By joining forces with Russia, Europe would have access to a fixed number of seats on the vehicle, perhaps one or two per flight, for use by its own astronauts.

"At the moment we have to ask the Russians or ask the Americans to fly an astronaut," said Mr Thirkettle. "Through participation in the Clipper, we would have the right to seats when we want them."

European industry would benefit, too, from Russia's years of experience in human spaceflight, he said. Russia, in return, would have access to certain technologies that are more sophisticated in Europe.

"It potentially is a fairly happy marriage," said Mr Thirkettle.

Lunar goals

Russia intends to build the Clipper within the next decade, carrying out the first automatic test flight in 2011. The fleet would gradually be phased in, finally replacing the Soyuz in 2014. The first flights with cosmonauts would start around 2020, at a time when the world has set its sights on returning to the Moon.

The Clipper would allow Russia and Europe to collaborate with the Americans on lunar exploration, allowing six astronauts to orbit the Moon and to act as a back-up rescue craft, if needed.

"Experience has shown that it is very important within an international programme to have a robust approach in terms to access to space," said Mr Fournier-Sicre.

"For future exploration, when we have the objective of going to the Moon, it is important to have several possibilities to go there, and within this framework of cooperation to have our own access to orbit around the Moon."

The Clipper also enhances the possibility of space tourism.

"On the Russian side, of course, they have in mind space tourism and propose a certain level of comfort; but the main objective is science," said Mr Fournier-Sicre.

Esa is to ask member states to fund a two-year study looking into the logistics of the scheme when ministers meet on 5-6 December.

The development and operational side of the programme is expected to cost around 100m (£68m) euros a year.

Source: BBC

 

[thetrooper]

Ducks and drakes.

 

[kronic]

So the Europe finally realizes it needs a human spaceflight

Really? 10

 

[Guled Orwell]

Never beat NASA, me thinks!

 

[Kozmos]

You thinks wrong.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

In Soviet Russia, spaceships fund you!

 

[Masquerouge]

This is a thread for Aleph-Null

Never beat NASA, me thinks!

Well, just keep thinking that. I won't be the one to wake you up when it's over

 

[brennan]

It is perhaps a telling fact that this is only a 'people carrier', clearly a future US program would have to lug anything other than people into orbit.

On the other hand, a dedicated manned launch vehicle would probably be safer than a more complex craft - like the old shuttle. And NASA could benefit from any new technology developed from this clipper to use on their next generation orbital vehicle - which I guess would definitely have a large cargo capacity.

 

[h4ppy]

But NASA is building a shuttle replacement concurrently with these guys so any technological advancements would really go towards the next next generation vehicle.

 

[Hotpoint]

It is perhaps a telling fact that this is only a 'people carrier', clearly a future US program would have to lug anything other than people into orbit.

On the other hand, a dedicated manned launch vehicle would probably be safer than a more complex craft - like the old shuttle. And NASA could benefit from any new technology developed from this clipper to use on their next generation orbital vehicle - which I guess would definitely have a large cargo capacity.

I reckon the Clipper will be an excellent counterpart to the ESA ATV (Automated Transfer Vehicle) which is designed to haul several metric tonnes of Cargo to the International Space Station.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/ATV/SEM5ARZCU8E_0.html

 

[Bluemofia]

Hey NASA! Competition! Better step up your efforts or you will lose to Europe.

(a little competition never hurts anyone. Just makes both do better.)

 

[Guled Orwell]

Even the Somalis have a better chance of getting into space! Until i see manned mission to outer space i will continue doubt Europe's space age aims.

 

[EnglishPunk]

Why do all these amercians think that the ESA and NASA are in compitition...

I know next to nothing about space agencies so if people could educate me but I thought most space techolgy was shared. (If it isn't then it should).
I mean why are we going there if it isn't for sceince. I see no other real practial use for the near future...unless you count space tourism which would only benifit a few who have the funds

 

[Dreadnought]

If all of Europe funds the ship with alot of money, it could outdue NASA!

 

[Zarn]

Europe is funding Putin's government?

Are you that angry with the US? It's kind of disturbing.

 

[Bluemofia]

Why do all these amercians think that the ESA and NASA are in compitition...

I know next to nothing about space agencies so if people could educate me but I thought most space techolgy was shared. (If it isn't then it should).
I mean why are we going there if it isn't for sceince. I see no other real practial use for the near future...unless you count space tourism which would only benifit a few who have the funds

Well, if they compete, they have a goal in mind, and they work harder. If they don't, then they have no motivation. Look at the cold war. The US sent up several manned missions to the moon, and now we lost the plans to the Saturn V rockets (the Nixon Administration's fault, they deleted it) so we can't go back up there. NASA is spending the same amount of money as in the 1960s, but accomplishing 1% as much.

 

[Hakim]

Seems like Europe are becoming a little less dependent on US than before. They will still do a lot of stuff together.

It's good that Europe cooperates with Russia, they're skilled in space technology - and democratic.

@Zarn: are Russia still enemies of the US?

 

[Zarn]

Many of us don't like Putin and don't see Russia as any more representative than it was 20 years ago (but I can't speak for all).

 

[Winner]

Europe is funding Putin's government?

Are you that angry with the US? It's kind of disturbing.

Who said anything about the government? And IMHO the cash flow from North America is much higher

 

[Winner]

On the topic:

As I said several times on this forum, ESA-Russian partnership will be very profitable for the both sides. Russians have the experience and inventiveness, we have certain technologies and the money. And of course, we want to be more independent on the Americans, so the cooperation with Russians is a good choice.

As you surely know, ESA will also allow the Russians to use its spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana:

ESA has entered into a 340 million euro joint venture with the Russian Federal Space Agency over the use of the Soyuz launcher [13]. Under the agreement, the Russian agency will manufacture Soyuz rocket parts for ESA, which will then be shipped to French Guiana for assembly. ESA benefits because it gains a medium payloads launcher, complementing its fleet while saving on development costs. In addition, the Soyuz rocket — which has been the Russian's space launch workhorse for some 40 years — is proven technology with a good safety record, which ESA might be happy to use for launching humans into space. Russia also benefits in that it will get access to the Kourou launch site. Launching from Kourou rather than Baikonur will allow the Russians to almost double the Soyuz payload (3.0 tonnes vs. 1.7 tonnes), because of Kourou's closer proximity to the equator. Both sides benefit from the long term strategic cooperation that in addition will be used to jointly develop future technology.

Of course, ESA will still cooperate very closely with NASA, but the competition will grow in time.

Few pictures of Kliper:

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