Mise
isle of lucy
You're using freedom of expression to defend a group that wants to destroy all freedom? It seems quite perverse to me.luiz said:
Works both ways mate.Seanirl said:
European Union Consider Going the Way of Germany...
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Seanirl said:
As I said, it is banned here (as Doc said, not the symbols itself, but their glorification), but I don't see any totalitarian tendency in my country. In fact, most of people agree with this ban.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Mise said:
I agree completely with you.
One liberal motto is "tolerate those who want to tolerate us". Nazis don't want to tolerate any freedom except the freedom to love the Führer. I don't see any reason to allow them to start this nightmare once again by defending democratic "principles". It is certainly not democratic to allow someone to destroy democracy.
Billy Rubin
breakdown product of HB
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
That's what I meant with workarounds, actually. I think banning symbols (allright - their glorification, which is implied by wearing them) doesn't change anything about the fact that these people still exist - the celtic cross is banned as well, because it was the vsbd/pda's symbol, which was banned as a party, same goes for the odalsrune (BNS), the wolfsangel (JF) and various other symbols - did banning the symbols change anything?
It's not too hard to recognize nazi-skinheads by their lonsdale sweaters, but they're just drunk scum with nothing to lose. I'd still personally prefer to allow people like Jürgen Rieger, Christian Worch, Horst Mahler etc... a small swastika button - so I'd know what I'm up to in case I come accross them without having to read some reports.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
I've had that discussion an ungoodly number of times already. Now, Americans, if you are so much for freedom and no censorship, why do you get a heart attack when a bare-breasted girl would show up in a TV commercial during family program (perfectly normal in Europe)? What about that 'explicit lyrics' stickers? The language filters even on this board?
I can agree to disagree with those who consider a swastika ban useless.
But please don't come with that "censorship" BS.
I can agree to disagree with those who consider a swastika ban useless.
But please don't come with that "censorship" BS.
Winner said:
It's an opinion, and nothing more. A repulsive and ignorant opinion, true, but supressing any opinion is bad.
Furthermore many people use symbols that represent tragedies for others. Like the hammer and sickle(in fact the USSR killed far more then Nazi Germany). Why aren't communist symbols banned as well?
There are still people who pay their respects to mass murederers such as Stalin, Lenin and Mao - why only Hitler is banned?
Even apparently harmless symbols can represent much suffering for some. We can't possibly ban them all.
Mise said:
Not defend them per se, but rather their right to freely expose their ridiculous opinions.
The thought that the government can determine which opinions can be publically expressed and which can't scares me far more then some ignorant loosers spreading their crap. Only ignorant loosers listen to them, anyway.
BloodyPepperoni
King
Who believes in Nazism anymore, except some few skinheads? It would be rather useless to ban Swastikas , as long as we continue to teach in schools the horrors of Nazism. It's useless as long as we continue to hold ceremonies such as the 60th anniversary of the D-Day, so that no one ever feels attracted again by that ideology. On the other hand, if we ban swastikas, why not banning communists symbols as well? Some (not me, by the way) consider Communism worse than Nazism, and it's not clear which of these regimes caused more deaths.
EDIT : I hadn't read luiz's posts while I wrote this (concerning communism)
EDIT : I hadn't read luiz's posts while I wrote this (concerning communism)
MarineCorps
Explosion!
I can't belive they are able to even do it. In America such an act would be ruled unconstitutional. 
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
MarineCorps said:I can't belive they are able to even do it. In America such an act would be ruled unconstitutional.
Aha. Then, why is there a language filter on this board?
Mise
isle of lucy
I personally prefer Winner's motto: "Tolerate those who want to tolerate us". If there was one -ism thought I could irradicate from people's minds it would be racism, and I can't tolerate racists in any way shape or form. I find it deeply perverse when racists march under the banner of freedom and democracy, and I have no moral objections to the government using our principles and morals to ban them from doing so. There should be no place in society for racists, and anything that would erradicate that which has plagued Europe once before I would welcome with open arms.luiz said:
I certainly don't accept the "slippery slope" arguement you presented. It simply wouldn't happen that a good man's freedom would violated. The law specifically targets racist Nazis, and would not set a precident (sp?) against other political movements.
Shadylookin
master debater
I think it should be legal to display the symbol. If not because banning it goes against the first ammendment then because banning it would make them martyrs and further their cause.
it's a private server. if you try and preach nazism on some guy's private property he can tell you to leave. The same for an internet server.
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
it's a private server. if you try and preach nazism on some guy's private property he can tell you to leave. The same for an internet server.
MarineCorps
Explosion!
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
The constitution only protects you from the government.
amadeus
Serenity now
Unusual how the EU decides to try and stamp out a symbol by using tactics preached by the people they're trying to stop.
Mise
isle of lucy
Otherwise, they try and stamp out what we used to protect them...rmsharpe said:
If they don't respect our freedom, why should we respect theirs?
amadeus
Serenity now
So I assume the Liberal Democrats are next on the chopping block? They don't respect your freedom to make your own economic decisions, so they must be banned too.
Mise
isle of lucy
I support the Liberal Democrats. I voted for them. Twice.
Slogans are one thing, sharpe, details are another. If you want to discuss details, do it with Doc Tsxzklywhateverski or Winner, I can't be bothered. They know more about it than I do anyway.
Slogans are one thing, sharpe, details are another. If you want to discuss details, do it with Doc Tsxzklywhateverski or Winner, I can't be bothered. They know more about it than I do anyway.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
MarineCorps said:The constitution only protects you from the government.
That's not the point. The filter isn't there because TF is fanatically fighting explicit language (at least, I hope he doesn't do so
), but for the same reason similar filters are on for any American boards - Puritanism. Noone running such a board can afford to mess with certain "mothers". You'd be pretty surprised about the "adult content" on cdz or civforum.de.Parental Advicory stickers are a geniune American form of censorship as well.
Oh, you're only doing that to protect minors? So do we when banning Nazi Symbols.
That's not an arguement why to ban Swastikas. But "freedom of speech" in the American meaning is no arguement to not ban them.
Mise said:
A Socialist government might as well use principals and morals to put me in jail, since I'm a slefish/capitalist/imperialist/pig who doesn't like paying high taxes.
Let them march, as long as they don't inflict any physicall harm.
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
It's funny to read a post where two words are hidden with stars and where the writer is complaining about the censorship in OTHER countries...Seanirl said:
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