1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Even Moar Units: The Aztecs 2.0

Adds Jaguar Warrior and Warrior Priest units to the Aztecs.

  1. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    London, UK
    Deliverator submitted a new resource:

    Even MOAR Units: The Aztecs - Adds Jaguar Warrior and Warrior Priest units to the Aztecs.

    Read more about this resource...
     
  2. Lynnes

    Lynnes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    886
    Units look great and I like their unique functionality!
    :thumbsup:
     
  3. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2,130
    Location:
    Tarnów, Poland
    Great to see the Aztecs out, and very nice ability on the Warrior Priest. Only Poles left to do now. :D
     
  4. jojobe

    jojobe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    34
    I was hoping this would work with the triple civ bonuses mod It does not. I removed this mod but for some reason i cant get the triple bonuses mod to work again even after uninstalling the mod also tried removing the game and reinstalling.
     
  5. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    London, UK
    This mod won't affect other mods once the Even_MOAR_Units_Aztec directory is removed so I guess the problem is with the Triple Bonuses mod. It doesn't look like that mod has been updated since the Winter Patch was released so it may not be compatible. Maybe ask a question in that mod's thread.
     
  6. Jambrose

    Jambrose Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    BALANCE ISSUE

    Jaguar Warriors can 3 shot a 12 pop city attacking over the river (and it has so little hp after 2 attacks that I am certain they can 2 shot it when not attacking over the river). Plus I am afraid that defense penalty is not counterbalancing it, since iron for swordsmen is pretty sparse and spearmen and archers are not very effective even considering that penalty.

    Looking at numbers:

    Attacking:
    Jaguar strength
    vs. swordsman^ 42:35 = +7
    vs. spearman 52*:25 = +27 (!)
    vs. rider^^ 42:35 = +7
    vs. archer 42:15 = +37 (I usually see my archers one shot by lone Jaguars)
    vs. cataphract^ 42:39 = +3

    Defending:
    Jaguar strength Production ratio (Jaguar: X)
    vs. swordsman^ 28:35 = -7 1:1
    vs. spearman 38:25 = +13
    vs. rider^^ 28:35 = -7 9:8
    vs. archer 28:25** = +3
    vs. cataphract^ 28:39 = -11 ~ 1:1,35

    *Melee class bonus vs. anit-cav
    **Ranged
    ^Requires Iron
    ^^Requires Horses

    As you can see, you either need Horse resource for Riders to get a chance to get a fair fight or Iron for Swordsmen (but remember, Aztecs can and WILL spam Jaguars, in really amazing numbers) or for Cataphracts. Now Cataphracts require Iron, cost actually more production, get penalty vs anticav and are still effectively only 8 points stronger than Jaguars (Jaguars get +3 on offense and -11 on defense totaling -8).

    In the cost category it should be considered that Jaguars can capture defeated units as Builders with 3 building charges, which effectively can make them pay off for their production just by attacking, which they are horrendously good at.

    Also its worth consideration that of 3 units capable of countering Jaguars (and as I said all 3 of these come with setbacks) only Swordsmen recieve +4 bonus from Oligarchy.

    My ideas for fixing the problem:
    1) Lowering the bonus to 4, which with Oligarchy would still make for +8 offense/ - 3 defense.
    2) Increasing the penalty to 10 or even more: this would empower archers and cav chases and require more tactical use;
    3) Removing the ability to capture units as Builders;
    4) Making them only purchasable by Gold or Faith (I mean both options, not one of these);
    5) Changing their type to Heavy Cavalry (I know this may sound a bit crazy, but this actually suits their playstyle as chargers considering Heavy Cav promotion tree, would lower the difference between them and Spearmen with the latter still losing sorely and require strategic thinking ahead and consideration for finding Iron for further upgrade to Knights).
     
  7. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    London, UK
    Thanks for the detailed analysis @Jambrose. The Jaguars are definitely overpowered. I'm thinking I might change them to: 38 Attack, 23 Defence and keep the capture Builders ability what do you think? Does that weaken them too much?
     
  8. Arkenor

    Arkenor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Now that everyone has the Aztecs, perhaps this could be rolled in to the main mod?
     
  9. Jambrose

    Jambrose Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Well that is pretty nerfing but I guess it should work out, being balanced by capturing and no iron cost.
    Sounds balanced, but it is hard to say without testing. If you would like to test it just send me units file and I will dig right into it.
     
  10. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    7,917
    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    actually I'd recommend to leave jaguar as they are and buff all other swordmen to 40 ( 45 for legion I guess ) since currently they have the same strength as riders but half their speed
     
  11. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    London, UK
    Deliverator updated Even MOAR Units: The Aztecs with a new update entry:

    Update 1.1

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  12. TamirLenk

    TamirLenk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    Love this mod. But for some reason, the Warrior Priest seems to yield Great Prophet points from kills instead of Great General points.
     
  13. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    London, UK
    I think that was actually intentional and I got the description wrong! Anyway what do people think works best General or Prophet points? I suppose I thought Prophet would be appropriate as they are priests after all!
     
    Manifold likes this.
  14. Lynnes

    Lynnes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    886
    Prophet points sounds good!
     
  15. TamirLenk

    TamirLenk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    56
    Gender:
    Male
    General points are much better. By the time you get Mysticism and the 240 faith to build a priest, if you care about religion, you either have or are close to having one. Thereafter, Prophet points are useless.

    General points are good forever.
     
  16. Deliverator

    Deliverator Graphical Hackificator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,964
    Location:
    London, UK
  17. kaminosan

    kaminosan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Im having trouble playing this mod on my civ6..keep crashing..any ideas why ? i download it and places it normally just like your previous mod..somehow this one keep making my game crashes (note that i stack your mod with other mods which mostly changes the yields and policies...does that have to do with it ?)
     
  18. Tweeds

    Tweeds Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    So am I. Disabled all mods except for MOAR units mod and this mod. Says loading then says Start and then goes back to main menu
     
  19. Tweeds

    Tweeds Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Nevermind. Didn't realize my version of MOAR units wasn't updated. All good now
     
    Deliverator likes this.
  20. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,580
    I like the idea and bonuses of the warrior priest.:egypt:

    by the way I have a question: is it possible -theoretically- to give an unit a negative ability like the opposite of a healer, so that adjacent units get some damage instead of healing? would this work theoretically? thanks
     

Share This Page