Even more Apostolic Palace questions...

[6K Man]

Background:

Spoiler :

I'm back from the dead in my current game (Prince, Huge map, 18 Civs, low sea level, brokering off, BTS 3.17 patched, as Qin). Started on the end of a long, narrow landmass, and was blocked by Ragnar once I got my 3rd city down. Mercifully, one of those 3 cities had copper. Ciao, Ragnar. Kept most of his cities because Gandhi was just beyond him and I didn't want Gandhi to backfill my conquered lands. Was running out of cash, and Gandhi had the christian holy city. Vassaled him. By that point, I was way behind in tech, and the tech leader (by about 5 or 6) was Willem. I didn't like the idea of letting him run away with the tech lead when Dikes were in his future, so I stomped him, too.

The upshot is that I have basically wasted much of my Industrious trait - I barely built any wonders due to the wars, and lost many of the wonder races that I entered. Fortunately Willem, bless his pointy little face, happened to have built the taoist holy city and REALLY spread it around - I'm talking +70 . I've got a ton of land, 3 former AI capitals, and am now the tech leader (by about 2 or 3), GNP leader, and am very close to the top in military, too. I've cleared my landmass of all AIs except the Indian rump state. There's just one small problem...

I own (captured and eliminated the builder of) the taoist holy city, and taoism is BIG in this game - 45%, and about 2/3 of my cities are taoist. Unfortunately, I don't run the apostolic palace which is, of course, taoist. Cyrus does - he's about 4th in score and just signed a DP with the #2 leader (Pericles).

In the course of overrunning the AP builder, I grabbed 2 of Cy's cities on my landmass. Naturally, Cy has asked for one of them back via the AP. I defied (and would have lost big if I hadn't defied). He's now asked again, and I'm at a loss regarding what to do.

1) If I say yes, all my unhappiness due to being a "villain" goes away, correct? Does it fade with time, otherwise? Does it stack to 10 if I defy again?

2) If I research Mass Media, the AP is obsoleted, according to the 'pedia. Does that mean that my unhappiness goes away? Can I safely ignore the AP? Or will I be unable to EVER make the unhappies go away by voting for a successful resolution?

3) What else can I do to mitigate the unhappiness? Would adding additional religions in my cities with taoism help? My state religion is christianity, would switching to taoism make things better, worse, or no difference? How about switching to Free Religion?

4) If I burn down the AP (a last resort, as it is in Athens and Pericles is both #2 on the PG and one of my few friends - and it would take a major military effort), will the unhappiness go away?

5) Is there a point where I will have enough of my own culture in the former Persian cities that Cyrus will get over it and quit asking?

6) If I give the city(ies) back, does Cyrus automatically get modern defenders in them, the way it works with creating a colony? I was thinking I might just give in and then recapture and burn them. I can always found new cities of my own in the same spots, right?

7) Any other ideas? Or should I just make nice, give Cyrus his cities, and turtle/head for space?

 

[Joshua368]

1 - 4) The unhappiness is set on a timer, which is 20 turns on normal speed and converts accordingly. There is no way to simply remove the timer; voting yes, obsoleting the AP, razing the AP, controlling the AP, switching to religions or FR, none of those remove the timer. (though razing/obsoleting it will stop you from ever having to defy again)

However, it only effects cities with the AP religion, and is halved by each non-AP religion as well. So spreading other religions into your Taoist cities will make it disappear faster, and the more you get the better. (spreading taoism around on the other hand will spread the unhappiness-- yay!)

Voting yes along with the group should give you your membership status back though... letting you enjoy the +2 hammers per religious building and such. Won't kill the unhappiness though.

5) 51%

6) No, they do not get defenders automatically. (the cities are naked and exposed) However the culture is ingrained into the ground unless the entire civ is destroyed, which means if you raze and refound a city it will still be predominantly Persian and may be voted to switch.

7) Personally if I have an adequate force I would try to kill Cyrus, but that's just me.

 

[6K Man]

(I meant to say I overran the taoist founder, not the AP builder, of course)

I'd love to kill Cyrus... he always reminds me of a weasel. Unfortunately, he and Pericles are each nearly as powerful as I am. They're all part of a happy little taoist club that could potentially dogpile me if I attack Cyrus (complicating matters is that Pericles is one of the few non-vassals who is pleased with me, yet he has a DP with Cyrus). So that's a last resort. Until I get tanks and flight.

 

[JujuLautre]

However, it only effects cities with the AP religion, and is halved by each non-AP religion as well.

Are you sure about that? This is great news !

 

[6K Man]

Incidentally,

(spreading taoism around on the other hand will spread the unhappiness-- yay!)

Are you sure of this? I spread taoism to a very small city where the unhappiness wouldn't be an issue, and IIRC there were no unhappies there from the previous defiance.

 

[TheOgre]

ok, does destroying the AP still give hammers to AP temple/monostaries? what about when obselete?

 

[Joshua368]

Are you sure of this? I spread taoism to a very small city where the unhappiness wouldn't be an issue, and IIRC there were no unhappies there from the previous defiance.

Nope, guess it doesn't take effect. However the city will get unhappiness if you defy another resolution.

ok, does destroying the AP still give hammers to AP temple/monostaries? what about when obselete?

No, those will disappear.