..Every Single Unit..

[kokoras]

I run over a thread that is was mentioned the absence of some units that have the same abilities with the Unique ones.To be honest,for some time i thought that it was a bug causing this lack.I was wondering if this change finds you all in favore,because i for sure cannot accept the fact that some units cannot be built from all civs.To suport this i will ask if anyone of you have calculated the cost of upgrate:I mean it is not for sure the same thing to upgrate an Hoplite to a musketman than a pikemen to a musketman or an infantry...etc.The same counts for all those units that missing.If you have for example 10-15 Hoplites the upgrating cost to musketman is more or less 50% higher than the pikemen cost.The other fact is that civs that can't buit every single unit can't also upgrate their army for some period.An exampleersia/cant built medieval infantry=They cannot upgrate this unit to guerrilla.Or Egypt/Horsemen=Knights-Cavalry.Anyway i think you got the picture for what i am saying,so if anyone is interested let me know,because maybe the same thing counts for Conquests too. (Sorry but i don't know if this discuss has already been posted in other threads)

 

[cgannon64]

The Greeks have never been able to build Pikes, its always been that way. Yes, it would cost more to upgrade, but you would ALSO have very cheap Pikes. I think it trades off nicely.

Remember they increased the cost of upgrades to 3x the shields. I even find myself not even upgrading defensive units any more, I just build new ones where possible.

 

[kokoras]

But in civ3 greeks could built pikemen,that is certain.And i am not saying upgrating Hoplites because they are a U.U.Only the ability to built them.

 

[thestonesfan]

No, in a normal Civ3 game, Greeks could not build Pikeman.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by kokoras
The other fact is that civs that can't buit every single unit can't also upgrate their army for some period.An exampleersia/cant built medieval infantry=They cannot upgrate this unit to guerrilla.Or Egypt/Horsemen=Knights-Cavalry.Anyway i think you got the picture for what i am saying,so if anyone is interested let me know,because maybe the same thing counts for Conquests too.

Each civ can upgrade its UU with certain limited exceptions (only one step in the tech tree). For example, Persia cannot upgrade its immortals to MI -- but they are the exact same unit in any event, just with different cost. When the Persians discover Replaceable Parts, Immortals will be upgradeable to guerillas. Egyptian war chariots are also upgradeable - right oon through the tech tree. As you've already discovered, Greek hoplites won't upgrade to Pikeman (they are the same unit, fundamentally) but will upgrade to the next step in the chain (musketmen) and beyond.

EDIT: IIRC, you can continue to build your UU so long as you haven't had a Golden Age. Once you've had a GA, you can no longer build your UU if the replacement is available. Example: Persians with Feudalism not yet in or finished with their GA build either Immortals or Med Inf (whichever they like); once the GA begins, only Med Inf are buildable.

 

[cgannon64]

They could build Pikes? Hmm, I didn't know that.

But why would you want to?

Persia/cant built medieval infantry=They cannot upgrate this unit to guerrilla.

This, however, shocks me. Are you sure that Immortals can't upgrade to Guerillas? If so, it has to be a bug or a very bad decision by BreakAway/Firaxis.

 

[Masquerouge]

Yeah, it's as I've told Kokoras in another thread where he raised the same problem, you have to look at UU as units on steroids ; a hoplite is not an underpikemen costing way too much to upgrade, it's an overpowered spearman.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Originally posted by cgannon64

Remember they increased the cost of upgrades to 3x the shields. I even find myself not even upgrading defensive units any more, I just build new ones where possible.

I agree with you there. The only things worth upgrading now IMO is galleys to caravels. They're still not that expensive to upgrade.

 

[kokoras]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
No, in a normal Civ3 game, Greeks could not build Pikeman.

Thestonesfan you are wrong.I have played with the greeks many times in civ3,and i always had the possibility to build pikes.Guys i know that it is a U.U,but as i said before why sould they change(in PTW)the ability for the civs to build all of the units.

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by kokoras
Thestonesfan you are wrong.I have played with the greeks many times in civ3,and i always had the possibility to build pikes.Guys i know that it is a U.U,but as i said before why sould they change(in PTW)the ability for the civs to build all of the units.

well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

First time for everything!

 

[cgannon64]

Thestonesfan you are wrong.I have played with the greeks many times in civ3,and i always had the possibility to build pikes.Guys i know that it is a U.U,but as i said before why sould they change(in PTW)the ability for the civs to build all of the units.

But why would you want to? A Hoplite is Pikeman but you get it cheaper and earlier...why would you want to build a regular Pikeman?

 

[kokoras]

Catt i know that they can be upgrated in this way,but it doesn't change the fact that A.I don't give the same power(even if they have the same abilities ex.1.3.1)to Hoplites and Pikemen.And this is fair,can't be otherwise,there are 1000 and more years of development between the two units!So the question remains the same.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by kokoras
Thestonesfan you are wrong.I have played with the greeks many times in civ3,and i always had the possibility to build pikes.Guys i know that it is a U.U,but as i said before why sould they change(in PTW)the ability for the civs to build all of the units.

thestonesfan is right. Greeks can't build Pikemen and never could. If you did, it means that you have most likely played with civ-specific abilities turned off... which isn't a good idea

 

[Masquerouge]

Well if I got him right, he wants to be able to build pikemen because the cost of upgrading pikemen to musketmen is lower than upgrading Hoplite to musketmen.
However, what I think is the key here, hoplites are in fact spearmen, so you have to compare the cost of upgrading a hoplite with that of a spearman, Kokoras.
You have hoplites earlier that pikemen (as soon as spearmen, in fact), so it's natural the upgrade cost is similar to spearmen and not pikemen.
...
Geez it's very clear in my head but so hard to translate it in those filthy stubborn words

Oh and what's that thing about the hoplite and the pikeman not having the same power ? Is it true ? They have the same stat, don't they ?

 

[kokoras]

Originally posted by thestonesfan


well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!

First time for everything!

...iiiiii..... don't know...iii.... must think about it! ......

 

[kokoras]

Originally posted by embryodead


thestonesfan is right. Greeks can't build Pikemen and never could. If you did, it means that you have most likely played with civ-specific abilities turned off... which isn't a good idea

You know,i am a bit Never change the civ-specific abilities 'cause i like playing the game as it is.I know that i always could build pikes,now if something(i don't know what)messed up the game,i dont know what to say!....I would only like to see all units available......

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by kokoras
You know,i am a bit Never change the civ-specific abilities 'cause i like playing the game as it is.I know that i always could build pikes,now if something(i don't know what)messed up the game,i dont know what to say!....I would only like to see all units available......

Maybe you turned it off accidentally in Civ3, and when PTW came, it turned back to default Actually they removed this feature in C3C, but there are mods available that should work identically.

 

[kokoras]

But i have question.If i have turned off the civ-specicfic abilities doesn't mean that the U.U sould disappear(all civs to play with the same units),and that civ traits would no longer be active?

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by kokoras
But i have question.If i have turned off the civ-specicfic abilities doesn't mean that the U.U sould disappear(all civs to play with the same units),and that civ traits would no longer be active?

Yeah, they should. So you tell me that you have UUs, civ-traits and can build Pikeman with Greece? No playing any mod or something? Never messed up with your civ3x.bix? Normally, it's really impossible. Greeks don't build pikemen, same as Persians don't build Med. Infantry, and it didn't change with PTW, or C3C.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by thestonesfan
Ha ha! EAT IT!! I am supreme! I have yet to be wrong in anything!!

you were wrong (unfortunatelly) about the cataphracts getting thiere own unit art