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Everything I ever wanted to know about chopping..

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Warlord Sam, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Warlord Sam

    Warlord Sam 2500 hours and counting..

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Messages:
    379
    You might have clicked on this thinking that it was an explanation.

    Actually, I'm probably more clueless than you!! So, could anyone please point me towards a webpage or thread that's all about chopping?

    I've heard mixed opinions about various strategies (always chop hills, never chop hills, save some for the health bonus, chop everything for the shields, "its all situational") and I'm just wondering if anyone could just give me a bit of a breakdown as to *why* people feel the way they do.

    I figure it probably does mostly boil down to situational, but I also figure that there's some clear-cut (no pun intended :mischief: ) advantages to a few of the general rules that people follow... but I don't understand the mechanics behind their reasoning.

    So if someone could direct me to a good read, or else break things down for me, I'd appreciate being able to understand and make an educated decision based on that understanding.

    Thanks :D
     
  2. Gumbolt

    Gumbolt Phoenix Rising

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    23,337
    Location:
    UK
    A worker chops a forest in 3 turns and nets you 30 hammers. so 2 workers can chop 2 forest in 3 turn and make 60 hammers. What city in the early game could make 60 hammers in 3 turns? Perhaps 18 max in 3 turns if the right land and resources used. You can even start chopping the forests before you start making settler.

    In simple terms the choice is. 1. wait 15-20 turns to make a settler or 8 turns with a couple of workers to make a settler. Half the time and 1 extra worker to develop your land by the time you have waited for that settler. Plenty of posts on forum on chopping forests.


    Im told forest and lumbermills with railroad is worth saving forest for in later game. Not tried that yet. :lol:
     
  3. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    298
    Good places to chop:

    1) Tiles immediately adjacent to your cities so that enemy units cannot use them for their own defense.

    2) Hills, since a mine gives you an additional production, and a windmill gives you at least one extra food and one extra commerce.

    3) River bottoms or any other fresh watered areas. These can then either be farmed or equipped with cottages.

    4) All jungles, since they're pretty much useless.

    5) You can chop outside of your claimed area. The yield will be reduced, but you can go quite some distance. If you mouse over your axe icon, it will show you where your hammers will go.

    If you are going to leave any forests around your city, try to leave even numbers in your fat cross so that you get the health benefit. If you have overlapping city fcs, try to have forests in them, because the health benefits are shared by both cities.

    Chopping is such a powerful tactic for making workers and settlers that I expect it to be toned down in the next patch or two.

    Tom
     
  4. Willem

    Willem Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    7,313
    Location:
    Canada
    A forested Hill with a Lumbermill gives you the exact same yield as if it were mined, plus a .5 health bonus. Unless the Hill is on a river, which nets me a commerce as well, I'll leave it for later.
     
  5. jerVL/kg

    jerVL/kg Sheep Nuker

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    810
    You will never find a consensus for when it's good to chop or not, as there are as many opinions about chopping as there are people who play this game.

    I dislike chopping, and always try to save as many forests as possible. Mostly, it's an aesthetic thing -- having patches of forest everywhere simply looks much cooler than a totally deforested landscape. Plus, the health bonus can be criticial in the early game; you can counter late-game chopping by building hospitals & recycyling centers and such. Plus, a railroaded lumbermill makes as much production as a mine or a workshop. Plus...and this is the biggie...by saving the forests, you will have them later for chopping if you need to rush-build a critical Wonder, like The Kremlin or The Pentagon. (Both of these I was able to build in my current game as America, despite having learned Communism & Assembly Line WAY late...six forests chops + 2 turns of 0% research + Hurry Production = Instant Wonder!!!)

    Forested tundra (unless it's on a hill or next to a river) should *never* be chopped, because otherwise the land is useless. Forests immediately next to cities should generally be chopped ASAP, due to the security risk if an army invades. However there are exceptions to that too...putting a machine gun nest in a forest next to a city surrounded by rivers & peaks on the other three sides means your city will be nearly impenetrable!

    So the answer is...it depends. Ever city has its own unique needs, and you have to decide for yourself whether it's better to choprush that early settler (or forge, or barracks, which I do just as often) or whether saving the forests would be more useful in the long run.
     
  6. Beamup

    Beamup Higgs boson

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2001
    Messages:
    1,318
    Location:
    Boston
    Until the Lumbermill, the mine provides strictly superior production. And if you're willing to only consider the later game, the commerce doesn't matter because the Lumbermill gets it back.

    For hills, the chop/mine question is simple. Which would you rather have, 30 hammers right now and 1 hammer per turn worked until Replaceable Parts, or an 0.5 health bonus? Unless you're badly short of both health and food, or you're already well into the game before you might work the hill, the former is almost always preferable.
     
  7. Rast

    Rast Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    125
    On longer game speeds you get more hammers for chopping (but it also takes longer - a chop on Marathon takes five turns but nets 75-125 hammers, seems to be based on the underlying tile type and distance to the city).

    I chop everything I see - there's not a tree standing in my empire by 1000 BC EXCEPT on otherwise bare tundra tiles which can not be worked at all if you remove the forest.

    I do this because in the time it takes to tech to lumbermills you're missing out on a lot of hammers and the chance to discover a resource every turn (which seems to be negligable on normal but Marathon games go on over 1000 turns and there's a good chance you'll find resources on an early-mine tile), and in the early game you need a lot of hammers really fast to catch up to the AI on the higher difficulties.

    The health benefit is very important early game but after you get a few food resources you can chop the forests and build mines and barely notice it's missing. This is just my opinion, of course.
     
  8. ArmoredCavalry

    ArmoredCavalry Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ontario
    I am not generally a chop fanatic, but always chop hills as I leave some forests on the ground, I really like lumbermills, they add life to the landscape. I find the cities are not large enough to work the lumbermills
    UNTIL replacable parts (people go to the mines instead). Plus If you do not have enough production squares you are screwed in the later game. Workshops take away much needed food.

    I do agree on the fact that all jungles are useless and should be chopped if in a city radius(might be good for enviormentalism, but who uses that???).
     
  9. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    I need the commerce more in the early game than the extra Hammers, which is why I'll chop riverside Hills. And by doing so, and working Jungle/Hills etc. I usually find I have more than enough Hills to keep my population working until Replaceable parts come along. The forested Hills tend to be surplus that my population isn't large enough to work anyway, so there's no point in chopping them to begin with.
     
  10. [Comrade]RaVE

    [Comrade]RaVE Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
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    Location:
    Dallas, Texas.
    It's always a good rule to save a few forests around the city. Clear out any on the tiles directly next to the city, as to prevent a bonus for would-be attackers. If you need an area for a mine or a farm (do forests grow on floodplains?) then by all means chop it so that the production value of the forest isn't wasted.

    Other than that, analyze the benefits for each tile and how having a certain item on it will benefit you or hurt you. Place workshops on tiles with 1 food and atleast 1 hammer. I like to specialize tiles. :king:
     

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