Evidence for creationism

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arakhor, Oct 27, 2010.

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  1. Gangor

    Gangor King

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    I'm no creationist, but I do know that carbon dating is only accurate in the order of thousands of years, not even millions, let alone billions. You have to look at other isotopes to get better dates. Only trouble is, these techniques only date rocks, not previously living things, as carbon dating can.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    I know what nonsense he's referring to and I am a lesser man with that knowledge, since I know I belong to the same species. Maybe it's best to smile, nod and back away slowly to the door on this one :D
     
  3. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Please post some corroborating information from a reliable source, then we can all learn something.
     
  4. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    you need corroboration on the limited timeframe for carbon dating? I'll corroborate that ;) its good up to ~35,000 years
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Unfortunately, the best youtube video explaining carbon dating has too much swearing to link to.
    We should ask potholer54 to make a 'clean' version.
     
  6. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    I understand the principle of carbon dating, just not any of the specifics. Still, 35,000 years (back to before the last Ice Age and contemporary with Neanderthals) should be enough to disprove YEC.
     
  7. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    YEC creationists dismiss dating methods that conflict with their religion, but Genesis conflicts with their religion too ;)
     
  8. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    What part of "No, free will is letting people making their own informed decision, not trying to trip them down and punish them for it if they do. Get your logic straight." escapes you ?
    The fact that people can still make choices without someone trying to actively make them fall into a trap, or the fact that if you love people, you don't try to mislead them ?
    Your logic is still as failing as before.
    You, again, completely miss the point. If God created life and the rest, he's the one who created the need for lifeforms to prey on each others, to kills each others and the like. Why a benevolent God would requires his creations to murder and eat each others, rather than getting their energy purely from the sun and minerals ?

    That's called a contradiction, and that shows a logical error. Either God is not as benevolent (he created beings that need to kill each others), or he's not omnipotent/omniscient (he couldn't make it so).
    Your logic fails. That's not an insult, that's a fact. Your reasoning are not making sense and you miss the basic premisses. It's not MY fault if YOU make basic logical errors.
    It's up to you to think things through and correct your errors, or to feel insulted and keep your faulty reasonings.

    Free will and all, you see ?
     
  9. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    The bible does call the devil the god of this world.

    I think the traditional view though is that his power is but a usurpation of human dominion over the earth, through the manipulation of human society.
     
  10. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I don't know if that could be called the traditional view. Nearly every denomination that I can think of has the devil doing magicy-powers stuff.

    Yeah, the Bible certainly suggests that the devil has powers and dominion on Earth.
     
  11. Whiskey_Lord

    Whiskey_Lord Deity

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    I actually heard a YEC presenter at a conference call carbon dating "voodoo science." Can't remember the guy's name though.
     
  12. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    What's interesting to consider is how does the devil/satan have authority over this world? As I already mentioned, G_d gave authority to man, so how did it transfer to the devil/satan? Its an interesting thing to contemplate.

    While the Bible does indicate in several places that the devil/satan has autority over this world, I tend to find most Christians get upset when its mentioned. They seem to believe G_d and/or Jesus rules this world. This is just a personal observation though.
     
  13. Whiskey_Lord

    Whiskey_Lord Deity

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    I view it as more of a de facto authority because humanity has rejected God and chosen sin (Satan's influence).
     
  14. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Because God/Jesus aint here... That leaves "fallen angels" who were kicked out of Heaven. Thats the argument used by the Armenian sect, Satan is nearby and wields power. It aint like they're Satan worshipers, its more like how people in antiquity had totems or "good luck charms" to ward off evil spirits, or even prayer to be left alone. I think thats their context, and maybe even Satan can do occasional "good deeds" ;)

    We were given dominion over the critters, whatever that means. Top of the food chain? Smarts? Now we could get into the issue of why Satan rebelled etc, the fallen angels were pissed off about serving us. I have my doubts about that stuff, the Serpent and Garden has its origin with the Sumerians and they paint a very illuminating picture of this relationship between God and Satan that aint really about us.

    Ultimately Jesus/God does, or will, so the story goes...

    a personal observation, people who are upset by their religion should find a new one ;)
    Religion should be uplifting, not a source of despair...
     
  15. The_People

    The_People Of The People

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    The almighty gods of old and new need not our puny human "dating methods" to prove their work, nor do they need any one backing up their claim. All the gods need is at least one person to acknowledge their existence and they shall be appeased. All hail to the gods of old and new, if not may your soul burn with relentless disharmony and your bones crushed by the mighty anguish of the gods!
     
  16. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    God doesn't mislead anyone.

    He merely allows Satan to exist, who therefore can tempt humanity. God tries to show humanity the path, but he will not force anyone to take it. Satan is stronger on Earth because of all the deals and pleasures he can give you, but it is short-term; God's power is beyond the mortal plane, with eternal bliss being his reward. You are likely to endure much hardship in life, but just as savings for retirement reward you, "investments" in God reward you far more than any short fix from the Devil ever could.

    God's love includes even the Devil it may seem - just as we humans punish murderers, many don't go so far as to advocate destroying them, only locking them up. God therefore lets him live. God's love for us extends to how he tries and tries to get us to follow the right way... but at the same time, that love gives him a dilemma: he must allow us to retain our free will as well.

    To kill the Devil, or to strip us of our free will, would violate his love. He locks Satan up because he needs help, and it's the best God can do without killing one of his own children. As for why God allows Satan's influence to escape... I imagine it goes back to him providing choices for us.

    Now this I have no idea on. But assuming Creationism didn't happen, except the first forms of life, then he is not to blame: evolution is. Evolution transformed the primitive lifeforms into predatorial beasts. Perhaps God's respect for free will extended to even the natural processes.

    God gave us freedom of action and thought. At the same time, he allows Satan to influence us. Because humans are so prone to this temptation, Satan, by extension, "rules" the world.

    People do selectively choose which passages to follow from my personal observation.

    Though it would make the most sense: sin is associated with mortal life, and it is Satan's influence. Satan "ruling" the mortal plane, through his influence on humanity, therefore, is perfectly logical. But he is a regent who rules at the discretion of his King - God. God could toast him at any time.
     
  17. holy king

    holy king Deity

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    i would appreciate it if you would stop refering to communism as evil and something that needs to be fought against.
    it is my ideology and i very much would like you to respect it as viable economic and political system.

    thanks.
     
  18. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    So he does try to mislead, by using someone else to act as the tempter.
    Not only misleading, but manipulating.

    All the free will argument just fall flat, because, yet again and again and again, free will doesn't require a tempter. I can make choices without someone trying to mislead me.
    It's becoming a bit tiring to repeat it constantly, and to see you IGNORE IT constantly.
    Free will to a process ? That's nonsensical.
    God, supposedly omniscient, creating a mechanism FEEDING on death and pain ? Directly contradict God's supposed omniscience. If he's omniscient and omnipotent, he could have created an universe where evolution don't lead to preying on each others.
     
  19. luke2345

    luke2345 Warlord

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    Darwin said on his death bed that he was wrong
     
  20. Miles Teg

    Miles Teg Nuclear Powered Mentat

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    No, he really, really, really didn't.

    I keep telling myself that you can be a committed creationist without being an idiot, but when the claims are this obviously, mind-bendingly wrong I find it difficult. For the sake of the God you believe in, use freaking Google before you open your mouth!
     
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