Ex-IRA Supporter To Lead McCarthy Witchhunt Against Seditious Muslim-Americans

[Formaldehyde]

Its easy to not believe in it when you are no where near a 'total war' scenario.

If your utter survival is on the line, I think that moral line on it will tend to fluctuate a bit. The historical record supports this. You either learn from history....or you dont. /shrug.

So I was right all along? You do think that current civilian and military leaders would directly violate the revised Geneva Conventions, which specifically prohibit targeting civilians based directly on these acts committed during WWII?

Here's the discrepancy. You seem to be looking at things as if the situation of the past could be grafted into the present world like copying and pasting a file onto your desktop.

And you think I'm mischaracterizing your opinions?

What I was saying is that the atmosphere of the conflict and geopolitical climate of the world during the conflict forces us to look at these incidents in a different light because it was a radically different time.

Apparently most of the top military leaders at the time were vehemently opposed to nuking Japan, not once but twice. There was also general opposition to carpet bombing civilians, especially given that the war was already essentially over. These were very controversial decisions, even back then.

And I inderectly offered that it might have been changed based on other such egregious acts (like Nanjing, Bataan, etc) as well and that they may have been changed to stop conditions which can lead to a state of total war, so that "atrocities" like this never again become necessary.

That's just it. I think they weren't "necessary" at all. That it is morally reprehensible to change your own ethics based on what the enemy is doing. That it is nothing but a rationalization to commit your own "atrocities".

I dont think you did.

I just don't agree with your apparent version of it.

Once again, my opinion can best be expressed by the cliche that the ends never justify the means.

Again, different time. This is what I mean.

I meant current military and civilian leaders from civilized countries, not ones in the past. Many of them obviously did rationalize bombing civilians back then. But certainly not everybody did. It apparently started from the accidental bombing of civilians which the other side took as being deliberate. I believe it was a British crew that dropped a few bombs on the outskirts of Berlin after their aircraft was damaged, and it escalated from there.

 

[MobBoss]

So I was right all along? You do think that current civilian and military leaders would directly violate the revised Geneva Conventions which specifically prohibit targeting civilians?

Rofl, I see how you being 'right' is so important to you, but in this case, your're not. Your're not right about my earlier comments, and your not right about what could occur in a total war scenario.

As to your overall question, I think the historical record speaks for itself. You cant tell me that you are unable to imagine a war scenario so bad where a nation would cross such lines?

I meant current military and civilian leaders from civilized countries, not ones in the past. Many of them obviously did rationalize bombing civilians back then.

As the last total war scenario we had was WWII, we really dont know what would occur....but I tend to think those in charge today would react pretty much the same way our earlier leaders did, given the same set of circumstances.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Rofl, I see how you being 'right' is so important to you...

Oh sweet irony.

As to your overall question, I think the historical record speaks for itself. You cant tell me that you are unable to imagine a war scenario so bad where a nation would cross such lines?

Once again, I was "right". That is exactly what you think. Care to find a single military or civilian leader from a civlized country who admits that he would deliberately bomb the civilian population under any circumstances, as done during WWII?

As the last total war scenario we had was WWII, we really dont know what would occur....but I tend to think those in charge today would react pretty much the same way our earlier leaders did, given the same set of circumstances.

Only if we have another complete idiot as president.

And yes, I agree we have certainly seen where that may lead. There really isn't all that much difference between torturing and murdering innocent civilians than deliberately bombing civilians. They are both reprehensible acts, especially when committed by countries whose basic tenets forbid such atrocities against mankind.

 

[MobBoss]

Oh sweet irony.

Once again, I was "right". That is exactly what you think.

I have made no comment or opinion that I am either in favor of it happening or against it. Which you earlier alluded I did.

So, no, you're not right at all.

Only if we have another complete idiot as president.

You think Wilson or Roosevelt, both democrats, as idiots?....since they were in office during the world wars?

mmkay.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Yet you cannot provide anything but sheer speculation to back your original statement:

And that's why every single leader and military commander of every single civilizied nation completely disagrees with your wacky personal opinion.

Except....they dont.

So you really have no credible basis for what you insinuated must be a fact.

You think Wilson or Roosevelt, both democrats, as idiots?....since they were in office during the world wars?:

Why do you continue to deliberately misrepresent my opinions? Did I claim all "wartime" presidents were idiots or incompetent, instead of specifically referring to GWB and Truman?

 

[MobBoss]

Yet you cannot provide anything but sheer specuation to back your original statement:

Showing the proof of the historical record isnt 'sheer speculation'.

Again, those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

And that's why every single leader and military commander of every single civilizied nation completely disagrees with your wacky personal opinion.

Counterpoint: Is Gitmo closed? No? Did the Obama admin argue for holding such prisoners indefinitely? Yes.

Your position is far weaker than you realize.

Instead, you keep reiterating that you really have no basis for your previous statement other than your own personal opinion, which you falsely stated as a fact.

The only thing that I have given as fact is the historical record. My opinion is that since its absolutely happened before in a total war scenario, its likely to happen again in such a scenario.

Why do you continue to deliberately misrepresent my opinions? Did I claim all wartime were idiots instead of just Truman and GWB?

No, just alluded that those in power are idiots for getting involved in a total war scenario.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Showing the proof of the historical record isnt 'sheer speculation'.

Show me where there has been any intentional bombing of civilians since it was declared to be a war crime to do so. You haven't provided any facts to support this wacky assertion.

Again, those that refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Most people try to learn from their mistakes instead of trying to use it as a rationalization for making exactly the same mistakes in the future. Ironically, that is what Santayana actually meant by that statement.

No, just alluded that those in power are idiots for getting involved in a total war scenario.

Once again, you are deliberately mischaracterizing my opinion, this time in defense of mischaracterizing my opinions.

 

[MobBoss]

Show me where there has been any intentional bombing of civilians since then.

Werent you just arguing that in the case of the Reuters journalists recently?

Havent you accused US forces of this in Iraq and Afghanistan? And thats in situations no where near a total war type of scenario.

Seriously, Form. At least try to be consistent....I never thought I would be able to turn the tables on you enough to where you argue that US forces dont commit war crimes.

Once again, "prove" it by providing even one civilian or military leader who has even suggested he will commit what are now classified as being war crimes.

GWB, others in that admin and several military commanders have all said they would authorize waterboarding again if the security of the nation depended on it and it would save lives.

Detainees are still in Gitmo are they not?

How quickly some people seem to forget I guess.

But that's not what you have been insinuating here.

It precisely is. I dont see how clearer I could make that appear.

If you cant even see that, then there isnt really any use in continuing this conversation. Its hopeless.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Werent you just arguing that in the case of the Reuters journalists recently?

Are you claiming that was the intentional murder of civilians, much less by bombing?

Havent you accused US forces of this in Iraq and Afghanistan? And thats in situations no where near a total war type of scenario.

You do know the difference between acts commited by soldiers and those committed under direct orders of a military or civilian leader. Right? Do you actually think someone high up in the chain-of-command told them to do so? Or are you just bringing up even more red herrings instead of actually addressing the issues?

GWB, others in that admin and several military commanders have all said they would authorize waterboarding again if the security of the nation depended on it and it would save lives.

So based on this, you are claiming they would also deliberately target and bomb civilians as well?

 

[MobBoss]

You do know the difference between acts commited by soldiers and those committed under direct orders of a military or civilian leader. Right?

I do, and I point out that your're the one always accusing GWB of murder....

Again, consistency is key there Form. Key.

Do you actually think someone high up in the chain-of-command told them to do so?

You've alledged this in regards to Abu Graib, and complained about the lack of higher level punishment before.

Again...consistency.

So based on this, you are claiming they would also deliberately target and bomb civilians as well?

Do you believe that mankind has advanced so much in less than a century that unrestricted warfare will never occur again?

 

[useless]

Please stop your quote warring, Ally and Mobboss.

 

[JollyRoger]

Formald O'Hyde and Mobsama boss laden