EX? - War? What is it good for?

Exsanguination

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GAME IS NOW FULL.

Civ: India
Map: Medium Pangaea, Wet/Temp/4 bill
Barbarians: Restless
Difficulty: Emperor
Victory Conditions: Cultural is OFF.
Game Rules: No AI respawn, No Culturally linked starts

Game Variants:
*We may never declare war, ever.
*We may never make a civ declare war by demanding they leave our territory/using espionage missions. Of course, we can use espionage missions, so long as they are NOT meant for the sole purpose of getting the AI to declare war.
*We may not sign any Military Alliances, MPPs, or Trade Embargoes
*We may never attack any cities/units/anything (including workers). This includes pillaging, both in neutral and enemy territory. We may defend, of course.
*No propaganda missions
*We must honor ALL diplomatic deals made. This means we cannot cut-off trade routes by pillaging roads or selling harbors.
*We cannot ask the AI to leave our borders
*Fortresses are DISALLOWED
*We may not send ANY units other than settlers and their escorts through AI territory


***We are NOT playing by the RBCiv Honorable Rules. Only those outlined above.

Clarifications: I think the rules are pretty straightforward. I got the idea from the RBCiv Honorable Tactics; the idea here is to play a game under the 'honorable' war conditions, with a few extra caveats. The idea here is to see if we can go through a game where we are always in peace. I think it is very possible, so long as we maintiain our military and show some face. We can look as mean as we want, as long as we don't throw ourselves at others.

Although we cannot attack (and only defend), several tactics are still on the table - notably military blockades and baiting the AI (not with workers/settlers). Also, although we cannot attack (and capture) workers/settlers, we CAN buy workers. We can conduct espionage, so long as it be 'honorable' (meant for its purpose, not getting into war). Propaganda missions are off the table - but we can accept cultural flips. If you have any questions, just ask. If you are unsure of a certain move while playing, stop playing, save, and ask (only in extreme conditions, we don't want everyone to stop everytime they have an inkling of a doubt).

I have turned off cultural because my last thre Civ3 games have been cultural games, and I don't want to try for another, nor do I want to see the AI bust out with a cultural victory. Domination/Conquest are on solely for the AI (obviouls y we cannot win by either of those means). That leaves spaceship and diplomatic. Honestly, I don't care which one we win with. We can even go all the way to 2050. I just don't want to see us be involved in any kind of war.

That said, who wants to join ;)? I don't care what your skill-level is, as long as you can handle the difficulty level selected (majority rules). Let it be known I am a Monarch player, but I can survive Emperor games. Once we have a roster settled, we can decide on our civ, opponents/# of opponents, map conditions, and anything else that needs to be settled. The map must be Standard or smaller (I've got a slow computer... :cry: ).

For the record, I'd like to play as England, France, India, or Babylon. I've never played as England, so that would be interesting.

As always, 24 hrs to call, 72 to post. No worker automation. No extended goto orders (unless they only last your turn). 10-15 turns each. Ready to start you you all are ;).

Current Roster (FULL):
Ex
T-Hawk
SJ Frank
Erik Mesoy
Zarth

--Ex
 
I'd be interesting in playing this one, except I'm fully extended in my other commitments at the moment. Good luck, enjoy the game. :)

- Sirian
 
Been a long time since i last played an SG...
I Beat Emperor 3 days ago...

Sign me up!!

My vote goes for Monarch, India or France. Those *ARE* the 2 most peaceful civs, after all...
 
Hi,

I've been lurking on these board for a while, learning how to play. I think it's about time that I actully try a SG :) Playing peacefully is my usual style, so this should be right up my alley.

I'm mostly an Emperor player, but I'm fine with Monarch if that's what everone want. I also vote for the French... they just seem so right for this theme.

I do have a question about the rules though:

We may never attack any cities/units/anything (including workers). We may defend, of course.

Does this mean we may not attack units even within our own territory? Because the AI will send its defensive units into our land for the sole purpose of pillaging. As far as I can see, there is noway to bait these pillaging-unit into attacking. Thus, it will be very difficult for us to stop the AI from pillaging our land at will.

If this is what you intended, that's fine. We can still play it this way. There are still some very unusual tactics (also very "French" tactics ;) ) that we can use to prevent pillaging.

If this not what you want, then I think the best modification to the rules is to perhaps allow bombardment within our border. Even though we don't kill our enemies, we shall give them a good spanking that requires years of resting to heal :spank:

On a similar note, if we build fortresses and station troops inside them, they (the troops) will be able to take free shots at passing AI units. In some ways, this is goes against our theme, since we are firing shots at our enemy. In other ways though, this is exactly what we need. What are your thoughts?

Errr... another thing, I will be out of town beginning this thursday until next monday. I will be able to check the board during those times, but I won't be able to play. So please keep that in mind when you schedule the turns. Thanks.
 
Alright Erik Mesoy and Zarth, you're in ;).

Here are my proposed game settings: England, Small Map, Max Civs, Wet/Temperate/4 billion years. I'm guessing we're going for Monarch then?

**I want to play England solely because I have never played England before, and they sem good for this type of game.

I am accepting up to 1 more player now.

EDIT: SJ Frank posted right when I did. Answers:

- there is NO attacking. Of any kind, against any unit except barbarians (...). The best strategy to prevent pillaging is defend our valuable resources and tiles with good units.

- NO bombardment. This is a non-aggressive game, we may initiate or participate in ANY action that goes against any of our opponents.

-Fortresses - I have never used a fortress, so I didn't know that. That's a stickler. Let me think about it - I'm leaning at no because of the anti-aggression stance. Again, I've never seen the need for fortresses so I doubt this will be a big issue.

SJ Frank, I'll put you at the end of the roster. I'll admit, I myself was hoping for an Emperor game, but I think Monarch would be slightly more relaxed and might give us a better chance. It's up to you all.
 
Originally posted by Exsanguination
- there is NO attacking. Of any kind, against any unit except barbarians (...). The best strategy to prevent pillaging is defend our valuable resources and tiles with good units.

- NO bombardment. This is a non-aggressive game, we may initiate or participate in ANY action that goes against any of our opponents.

Good, this should make for an interesting game :)


-Fortresses - I have never used a fortress, so I didn't know that. That's a stickler. Let me think about it - I'm leaning at no because of the anti-aggression stance. Again, I've never seen the need for fortresses so I doubt this will be a big issue.

Come to think of it, a fortress is not required for taking free shots. Sometimes, just passing in front of certain types of fortified units will result in free shots. I believe the requirementa are 1) a shooting unit and 2) unit must have movement point left. With the number of fortified units we're going to have, I don't think we can avoid it.



SJ Frank, I'll put you at the end of the roster. I'll admit, I myself was hoping for an Emperor game, but I think Monarch would be slightly more relaxed and might give us a better chance. It's up to you all.

Thanks. I'm hoping to take the last turn of round one on Wedsday or Thursday, then perhaps you'll have to skip me for round two.
 
Originally posted by SJ Frank
Come to think of it, a fortress is not required for taking free shots. Sometimes, just passing in front of certain types of fortified units will result in free shots. I believe the requirementa are 1) a shooting unit and 2) unit must have movement point left. With the number of fortified units we're going to have, I don't think we can avoid it.

Those are called "Zones of Control" (or ZoC). Units such as Cavalry and Tanks have this ability. Such units will automatically take a "free shot" on any enemy unit. We can't stop this, but it usually doesn't make a huge impact.

Can you (or anyone) verify if ANY unit within a fortress takes a free shot? Or is it only those with ZoC?
 
I don't think you'll need to worry about pillaging too much. Since you'll never need to build offensive units chances are you'll be able to support enough units to have a virtual wall across your borders. At the very least you could have roving stacks of units (3 or 4 to a stack) in strings of four tiles. That would be enough to move back and forth like a pong paddle to block attempted border incursions at least until cavalry or the railroad.

Edit: You may want to build some offensive units solely because they are faster but this doesn't change my suggested strategy. I have a feeling explorers will be invaluble to you in this game. Being able to anticipate where the enemy is coming from will be essential.
 
In the Honorable rules, any military action within your own borders is always Honorable, regardless of who declared the war and how. You have a right to sovereignty within your own borders. If you want to extend that concept to no attacking, ever, go ahead, but it's not an aspect of Honor.

I've got enough SGs at the moment, but good luck with this one. Oh, and go for it on Emperor difficulty :)
 
Originally posted by T-hawk
In the Honorable rules, any military action within your own borders is always Honorable, regardless of who declared the war and how. You have a right to sovereignty within your own borders. If you want to extend that concept to no attacking, ever, go ahead, but it's not an aspect of Honor.

I've got enough SGs at the moment, but good luck with this one. Oh, and go for it on Emperor difficulty :)

Auf... maybe I didn't mention: We are NOT playing by the honorable rules! The only rules are those outlined in the first post. But, like I said, the idea spawned from the honorable rules from over at RBCiv.

Thanks, T-Hawk. I'm still up fer an Emperor grudge-match, but if we do so I'd like at least one seasoned Emperor-player by our side :).
 
I will be leaving early tomorrow, so scratch that playing-before-leaving idea.

I didn't have time to test the fortress free shot thing, will do that before this game gets to fortresses.

One more thing, you haven't specified the map continental type and water %. I think it's important because of this comment in the opening thread:

"The idea here is to see if we can go through a game where we are always in peace".

Is the always-peace game what you really want? Or do you want a game where we are attacked and have to struggle through the war without fighting.

The thing is, if we play a map where there is relatively little land to go around, and some AI gets squeezed a bit in terms of territory, the AI can become very aggressive when it comes to war, regardless of our defensive might. So, a map with more land to go around should result in a more peaceful game. Conversely, a map with little land will give us a lot of action. What do you think?
 
Yes, I want to play a peaceful game. Important to note however, is that I don't want to ban every single action that could cause war (ie espionage). But, I've decided that asking the AI to leave our territory is BANNED. We ALL know the AI almost always declares war (well, at least with me). So no matter how you look at it, its against the spirit of the rules.

As for the map, its up to everyone to decide. I wouldn't mind a pangaea, but anything is ok. Alrchipelago maps can get annoying, but I don't care at all. You guys choose.

One slot still open.
 
Actually - LOTR4 is ending, probably tonight when I play, so that's one fewer game on my docket. If you make this one Emperor, I'll join in.

Suggested settings - Small map, 60% water, continents, 4 opponents. Should make for some land available, without having way too much like TH2 does (standard/60%/3 opponents). :) Usually the reason to play a larger map is to discourage early game-winning war, but with our restrictions, there's no real need to play on a standard size. Also, having an odd number of total civs makes a diplo win marginally easier. (3-of-5 votes instead of 4-of-6.)

Civ - India sounds perfect, both for the theme and the civ traits.

Also, as for espionage - you should state no planting a spy unless we're already at war with that civ, since planting a spy often causes them to declare war if it fails.
 
Originally posted by T-hawk
Civ - India sounds perfect, both for the theme and the civ traits.

Also, as for espionage - you should state no planting a spy unless we're already at war with that civ, since planting a spy often causes them to declare war if it fails.

I'll go with India if no one else objects.

As for espionage, 2 things: 1) In my experience, it takes a couple of unsuccessful attempts to plant a spy and get the war message; unless you're pathetically weak, and 2) if you're at war, you can't conduct espionage (at least that's my understanding).

The idea with espionage being allowable is that if there is info that we truly need, we have the right to attempt to get it. Also, being a non-aggression game, some espionage-war would be fun :flamedevi

And, if no one else objects, this is now an Emperor game ;). SJ Frank and Erik Mesoy have already committed themselves as capable Emperor-level players, so I don't see any problems there. That leaves you - Zarth :D.

The game will start probably on Monday (I want to finish Epic 11 first), so you all have plenty of time.

--Ex
 
What? Are you serious T-Hawk? Holy... that can't be right! No! All this time? Dear lord... that kinda changes a LOT of my strategy... can't believe I never notice that before!

I know planting a spy can induce a civ to declare war in one shot, but like I said, my experience has proven that it takes multiple attempts to get a rxn.
 
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