Exciting German Start
- Thread starter agonistes
- Start date
Details:
- Playing as Otto
- Giant yet not another map
- 22 civs and max city-states (but away, so usually like 12 I think)
- Prince, Marathon, Abundant
- No victory conditions
- TSL
- Mods: coast/rivers give gold, unlimited xp for barbs, and only 1 more unhappiness for a new city. Oh, and no giant robot of death or those stupid space rangers.
Few points:
1) I am very familiar with the map. I know where resources are likely to spawn, and I know where the barbarian hotspots are.
2) This is a restart. First start was a great game, but I had moved my initial settler to the coast, and as the game went on I grew uncomfortable with Berlin being a coastal city. Sadly. That game had one of my most fun battles ever. Second start I didn't move the settler, had 1x deer and 4x truffles. Which was okay, and I took Goddess of the Hunt. But in my Russia game Berlin has 3 cattle. So I restarted, got 4 cattle (and later horses and iron), so woo hoo.
3) No victory conditions, so nothing to win. Not expecting to lose, either, though.
4) I wasn't expecting this start, so I didn't take screenies. I will have to use a static current map, and probably a screenie of the blank map in modbuddy.
EDIT: LIST OF CIVS PLAYING
1. Germany. (me)
2. Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Rome, and Greece. Also Byzantium, Carthage, Egypt, and Ethiopia. And then US, India, Siam, China, Japan, and Mongolia. (them)
====> normally I don't use Greece, cause it kind of crowds Europe too much and Greece usually gets bullied, but I wanted to not use Brazil so I could keep S. America clear for AI colonization.
=====> I've found using Songhai helps keep Ethiopia in check, but since I'm not playing Russia, I really need Mongolia (my changeout with Songhai) to fill up some space in that region (although Mongolia loves to beeline for the coast for some reason).
Ultimately, beset on all sides by pissed off AI through the first 2 ages, usually outnumbered and outclassed, and fighting major battles on multiple fronts, I attempted to squeeze out my desired wonders, found my starting cities in 'must have' locations, found the first religion, and stay competitive with techs all while being in negative happiness.
Yes, its only Prince, but being stuck at size 2 or 3 in all of my cities for nearly 2 full ages while trying to accomplish my goals, while being heavily invaded, was exciting!
So I'm going to post a couple of screenies and try to allow you to share in the tension. And defeats.
- Playing as Otto
- Giant yet not another map
- 22 civs and max city-states (but away, so usually like 12 I think)
- Prince, Marathon, Abundant
- No victory conditions
- TSL
- Mods: coast/rivers give gold, unlimited xp for barbs, and only 1 more unhappiness for a new city. Oh, and no giant robot of death or those stupid space rangers.
Few points:
1) I am very familiar with the map. I know where resources are likely to spawn, and I know where the barbarian hotspots are.
2) This is a restart. First start was a great game, but I had moved my initial settler to the coast, and as the game went on I grew uncomfortable with Berlin being a coastal city. Sadly. That game had one of my most fun battles ever. Second start I didn't move the settler, had 1x deer and 4x truffles. Which was okay, and I took Goddess of the Hunt. But in my Russia game Berlin has 3 cattle. So I restarted, got 4 cattle (and later horses and iron), so woo hoo.
3) No victory conditions, so nothing to win. Not expecting to lose, either, though.
4) I wasn't expecting this start, so I didn't take screenies. I will have to use a static current map, and probably a screenie of the blank map in modbuddy.
EDIT: LIST OF CIVS PLAYING
1. Germany. (me)
2. Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, France, England, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Rome, and Greece. Also Byzantium, Carthage, Egypt, and Ethiopia. And then US, India, Siam, China, Japan, and Mongolia. (them)
====> normally I don't use Greece, cause it kind of crowds Europe too much and Greece usually gets bullied, but I wanted to not use Brazil so I could keep S. America clear for AI colonization.
=====> I've found using Songhai helps keep Ethiopia in check, but since I'm not playing Russia, I really need Mongolia (my changeout with Songhai) to fill up some space in that region (although Mongolia loves to beeline for the coast for some reason).
Ultimately, beset on all sides by pissed off AI through the first 2 ages, usually outnumbered and outclassed, and fighting major battles on multiple fronts, I attempted to squeeze out my desired wonders, found my starting cities in 'must have' locations, found the first religion, and stay competitive with techs all while being in negative happiness.
Yes, its only Prince, but being stuck at size 2 or 3 in all of my cities for nearly 2 full ages while trying to accomplish my goals, while being heavily invaded, was exciting!
So I'm going to post a couple of screenies and try to allow you to share in the tension. And defeats.
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[Screenie Here later]
Welp, I guess my problems started when I declared on Austria and comped her Settler.
While my military consisted of 1 warrior.
But really, can you blame me? I had just settled my second city... and was now trying to build Stonehenge in Berlin. The free settler from policies was still 2 or 3 policy choices away, and I was strapped for cash. And Denmark was still unoccupied, as well as Switzerland. I was really stressing that those areas would be gobbled up by the AI, as they so often are. Denmark had 2x cattle, 1x deer, and, unusually, Sweden had settled just across from there (if I did not settle there soon, Sweden's culture creep would steal the cattle). Switzerland, as usual, was full of deer, near 3x silver, and a massive tactical value.
Meanwhile, William has a settler striding around Berlin's borders, and I see not 1 but 2, yes 2, settlers trying to creep out of Vienna.
But let's back up.
With the 4 cattle start I was like, "Woooo, this is IT!" Of course, as always, I hungered for a few keys wonders, and was feeling the pressure of a start that had me tightly surrounded by other civs (Vienna is 3 hexes away, for example), and also wanting my wonders. So... settlers and wonders. ALL WHILE TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH THE BORDER RACE WITH VIENNA. Meaning, my extra cash is going towards tile buying, NOT buildings or units (I am not planning on a General from Honor).
Germany's big advantage is getting defeated barbs (when encamped) to sometimes join you. Sometimes this seems to happen fairly frequently. Like 3 out of 4. I decided to depend on it happening at least 1/2 the time.
So after scouting my direct borders (and finding the 3 cattle not adjacent to my city), I went due east looking for barb camps. Found one. AND THE GIT DID NOT JOIN ME. And that was when I first thought: dang, this might not go well.
Welp, I guess my problems started when I declared on Austria and comped her Settler.
While my military consisted of 1 warrior.
But really, can you blame me? I had just settled my second city... and was now trying to build Stonehenge in Berlin. The free settler from policies was still 2 or 3 policy choices away, and I was strapped for cash. And Denmark was still unoccupied, as well as Switzerland. I was really stressing that those areas would be gobbled up by the AI, as they so often are. Denmark had 2x cattle, 1x deer, and, unusually, Sweden had settled just across from there (if I did not settle there soon, Sweden's culture creep would steal the cattle). Switzerland, as usual, was full of deer, near 3x silver, and a massive tactical value.
Meanwhile, William has a settler striding around Berlin's borders, and I see not 1 but 2, yes 2, settlers trying to creep out of Vienna.
But let's back up.
With the 4 cattle start I was like, "Woooo, this is IT!" Of course, as always, I hungered for a few keys wonders, and was feeling the pressure of a start that had me tightly surrounded by other civs (Vienna is 3 hexes away, for example), and also wanting my wonders. So... settlers and wonders. ALL WHILE TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH THE BORDER RACE WITH VIENNA. Meaning, my extra cash is going towards tile buying, NOT buildings or units (I am not planning on a General from Honor).
Germany's big advantage is getting defeated barbs (when encamped) to sometimes join you. Sometimes this seems to happen fairly frequently. Like 3 out of 4. I decided to depend on it happening at least 1/2 the time.
So after scouting my direct borders (and finding the 3 cattle not adjacent to my city), I went due east looking for barb camps. Found one. AND THE GIT DID NOT JOIN ME. And that was when I first thought: dang, this might not go well.
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Right off the bat, I started researching Pottery. And working on a Monument. This rarely changes for me. What *does* change is how fast my city grows, the timing of the Monument, and what I build next. Here, with the adjacent cattle, I decided to slow down Monument growth and expedite City Growth. Usually, after Monument, I will start to prebuild a unit until I discover Pottery, but here the Monument would finish at just about the same time I discovered Pottery.
So I was depending on my Conscript (Warrior) to recruit some fools. Gold was being saved to purchase tiles.
The Gold for tiles was not an easy decision, and making this choice meant I could not spend gold on a Settler or Granary. Which meant if I wanted to build either (or a worker), I'd have to somehow fit them in before starting Stonehenge. My 'to do' list was rapidly growing, and it felt like my window of opportunity was rapidly shrinking.
Still, aside from Germany (and Austria) having the tightest start in the game (the 3 hexes apart thing), nothing too too unusual going on to stress me out.
Ah, except... I know that there is a 50/50 chance that Amsterdam beelines for Denmark, and a 30/70 chance Austria beelines for Switzerland, plus the border growth from France, Sweden, and the Netherlands. Plus Spain and Rome racing for the Alps.
Germany on this map with all of the Europe civs is just about the tightest squeeze/border race you can imagine. For us mega-sized map players, anyways. Dunno about you small johns and your puny tiny starts.
Oooooh, I never mentioned what civs are playing. I'll go back and edit that in right now in the first post.
Ha ha, I am loving my new avatar btw.
Civ V: who would win? Invader Zim, or The Brain.
So I was depending on my Conscript (Warrior) to recruit some fools. Gold was being saved to purchase tiles.
The Gold for tiles was not an easy decision, and making this choice meant I could not spend gold on a Settler or Granary. Which meant if I wanted to build either (or a worker), I'd have to somehow fit them in before starting Stonehenge. My 'to do' list was rapidly growing, and it felt like my window of opportunity was rapidly shrinking.
Still, aside from Germany (and Austria) having the tightest start in the game (the 3 hexes apart thing), nothing too too unusual going on to stress me out.
Ah, except... I know that there is a 50/50 chance that Amsterdam beelines for Denmark, and a 30/70 chance Austria beelines for Switzerland, plus the border growth from France, Sweden, and the Netherlands. Plus Spain and Rome racing for the Alps.
Germany on this map with all of the Europe civs is just about the tightest squeeze/border race you can imagine. For us mega-sized map players, anyways. Dunno about you small johns and your puny tiny starts.
Oooooh, I never mentioned what civs are playing. I'll go back and edit that in right now in the first post.
Ha ha, I am loving my new avatar btw.
Civ V: who would win? Invader Zim, or The Brain.
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So anyways...
Sent Conscript (Warrior) east to find a camp while building a Monument and maxing growth rate in Berlin. Find a camp, kill the barb, he doesn't join us. So my warrior heads south a bit, and finds another camp. Again, victory for the German forces, but no POWs.
In the meantime, I've finished the Monument, Berlin has grown to size 2, and I've discovered Pottery. I'm currently building a Shrine, not a Granary.
Because everybody and their brother is running around with warriors and scouts, its hard for a barb camp to spawn. I've already met China and Mongolia - and I am NOT ranging far and wide. Never more then, say, 10-12 turns from Berlin max. Staying East/Southeast 'cause that is a barb hotspot and there is some nice wide and open space there still.
[Screenie here showing wide open space later]
I finish the Shrine, and am size 3, and start on my 1st Settler. I am researching Mining, not Calendar, at this point.
Still no barb camps, so I head to 'Denmark,' because that is another hotspot, right at the northern tip, and I can get up there and loop back around to Berlin to act as an escort for my Settler before my Settler is finished. No camp spawn there either.
One of my MUST HAVE wonders is the Great Lighthouse. See the problem already? I'm an inland start. To build the G. Lighthouse, I need to settle a coastal city soon enough that I can develop it in time to win the wonder race, and 1) that city won't have the bonus hammers of my capital, and 2) I can choose either that great Denmark spot (but the cattle have no hammers at this point, only 2 hammers total over there), or just east of Berlin, right next to some deer in a forest.
[screenies].
Crucial decision to make. And, no joke, that Denmark spot is highly sought after by the AI.
But, I went with the eastern spot despite the tile next to the deer NOT being a river (for some reason), and being totally surrounded by empty grassland except for the 1x deer.
Why?
More forest to chop.
Now, after that Settler is built, and I have founded my second city, Hamburg, and have Hamburg blazing away on a 60 turn Shrine (aye, 60 turns is a long time.... but in the holy buildings race, every point of faith counts, so the 60 turn investment is worth it), I have researched Calendar and am now building Stonehenge in Berlin. Still no workers, still 1 warrior.
I decide to have my warrior explore a bit more. This is where things get interesting.
Sent Conscript (Warrior) east to find a camp while building a Monument and maxing growth rate in Berlin. Find a camp, kill the barb, he doesn't join us. So my warrior heads south a bit, and finds another camp. Again, victory for the German forces, but no POWs.
In the meantime, I've finished the Monument, Berlin has grown to size 2, and I've discovered Pottery. I'm currently building a Shrine, not a Granary.
Because everybody and their brother is running around with warriors and scouts, its hard for a barb camp to spawn. I've already met China and Mongolia - and I am NOT ranging far and wide. Never more then, say, 10-12 turns from Berlin max. Staying East/Southeast 'cause that is a barb hotspot and there is some nice wide and open space there still.
[Screenie here showing wide open space later]
I finish the Shrine, and am size 3, and start on my 1st Settler. I am researching Mining, not Calendar, at this point.
Still no barb camps, so I head to 'Denmark,' because that is another hotspot, right at the northern tip, and I can get up there and loop back around to Berlin to act as an escort for my Settler before my Settler is finished. No camp spawn there either.
One of my MUST HAVE wonders is the Great Lighthouse. See the problem already? I'm an inland start. To build the G. Lighthouse, I need to settle a coastal city soon enough that I can develop it in time to win the wonder race, and 1) that city won't have the bonus hammers of my capital, and 2) I can choose either that great Denmark spot (but the cattle have no hammers at this point, only 2 hammers total over there), or just east of Berlin, right next to some deer in a forest.
[screenies].
Crucial decision to make. And, no joke, that Denmark spot is highly sought after by the AI.
But, I went with the eastern spot despite the tile next to the deer NOT being a river (for some reason), and being totally surrounded by empty grassland except for the 1x deer.
Why?
More forest to chop.
Now, after that Settler is built, and I have founded my second city, Hamburg, and have Hamburg blazing away on a 60 turn Shrine (aye, 60 turns is a long time.... but in the holy buildings race, every point of faith counts, so the 60 turn investment is worth it), I have researched Calendar and am now building Stonehenge in Berlin. Still no workers, still 1 warrior.
I decide to have my warrior explore a bit more. This is where things get interesting.
- I haven't mentioned it yet, but it is important to note, that the luxuries nearby are furs and truffles, furs in the 3rd hex from both Berlin and Hamburg, truffles 3 hexes away from Hamburg. The furs are NOT near Vienna, and Berlin does not seem to be in a hurry to acquire them with her borders, so it may be some time before either luxury is in my territory, as I am buying tiles up near Vienna, and still have no worker.
[screenie]
And when I do have a worker, he will have other things to do instead of linking up a damn luxury - and the one I absolutely despise because of those damn white tents - I honestly suspect someone was just too lazy to color them in. Fur camps and modern harbors, two of the ugliest things in the game.
[screenie]
And when I do have a worker, he will have other things to do instead of linking up a damn luxury - and the one I absolutely despise because of those damn white tents - I honestly suspect someone was just too lazy to color them in. Fur camps and modern harbors, two of the ugliest things in the game.
Thanks to policies, I get a Worker pop (before my bonus +1 hammer yield), and set him to chopping wood around Berlin. Forget the mine, give me the +60 hammers asap. And clear a hill of forest for the +1 while doing so. Then, skip the mine and go chop another hill. Quickest route to the hammers I can take. I can mine later. After that, I will probably be building the G. Lighthouse in lousy Hamburg. Not sure.
After Calendar, I research Animal Husbandry before heading to Sailing (since I have all that cattle, and Optics is like 80+ turns away).
So... that is the situation when my little scrub warrior sees a Dutch settler right on my border. I drool. But, alas, I declared friendship with William. My warrior moves on. And I see an Austrian settler trying to sneak pass Berlin. Here:
[screenie]
So... if I can kidnap this fellah, it will go a long way towards settling in those must-have spots (Denmark, and the Silver Mines to the Southwest)... a full 50% towards it, as a matter-of-fact.
So my warrior waits just outside of Austria, knowing the mountains and my borders will force that settler to go by him. The settler plays some tricky games for a few rounds, and then finally makes up his mind and comes out.
To DOW, or not to DOW...
My enemy would be 3 hexes away, and I have 1 warrior.
Its Prince. What the hey. I DOW.
After Calendar, I research Animal Husbandry before heading to Sailing (since I have all that cattle, and Optics is like 80+ turns away).
So... that is the situation when my little scrub warrior sees a Dutch settler right on my border. I drool. But, alas, I declared friendship with William. My warrior moves on. And I see an Austrian settler trying to sneak pass Berlin. Here:
[screenie]
So... if I can kidnap this fellah, it will go a long way towards settling in those must-have spots (Denmark, and the Silver Mines to the Southwest)... a full 50% towards it, as a matter-of-fact.
So my warrior waits just outside of Austria, knowing the mountains and my borders will force that settler to go by him. The settler plays some tricky games for a few rounds, and then finally makes up his mind and comes out.
To DOW, or not to DOW...
My enemy would be 3 hexes away, and I have 1 warrior.
Its Prince. What the hey. I DOW.
I grab the Settler and move back towards Berlin, thinking I'll head to Denmark with him (away from Austria, ha ha). When I see ANOTHER settler belonging to Austria!!!
- what to do - what to do -
It occurs to me that I will have more Settlers than Military Units if I take him.
- what to do - what to do -
It occurs to me that I will have more Settlers than Military Units if I take him.
In case its not clear... I have ONE warrior to guard a settler, a worker, and 2 undefended unwalled cities while at war with a country whose capital is literally only 2 hexes short from being able to bombard MY capital.
And I'm considering going for kidnapped settler # 2. See avatar to left for expression of evil lustful greed on my face.
edit: jeez, I'm so Zim.
edit2: Zim is, now, officially, a state of mind, like Zen, only evil.
I know some of you think cities in V are hard to take... but an undefended, unwalled city will fall like an angel's poop... lightly and easily.
And I'm considering going for kidnapped settler # 2. See avatar to left for expression of evil lustful greed on my face.
edit: jeez, I'm so Zim.
edit2: Zim is, now, officially, a state of mind, like Zen, only evil.
I know some of you think cities in V are hard to take... but an undefended, unwalled city will fall like an angel's poop... lightly and easily.
I decide to risk it. I start sending my Settler undefended up to Denmark and head my warrior over to where I expect I will be able to intercept the other Austrian migrant.
[screenie]
(I can't put the screenies in yet because that computer is at home)
Austria has a couple of units milling about, but nothing too terrifying... warriors only. I figure I can take the second settler, and just hold onto him until I make peace with Austria... I'm certainly not going to send him unescorted towards the Alps, and no way am I allowing my lone warrior to go too far from Berlin.
Then I see the THIRD Austrian settler... and I'm like... what the HEY? How is that even possible? They must have rush bought one, popped one from policies, and slow-counted the other. My god, I'm pushing my resources to the max and just barely got my second city down.
And... my Settler sans Escort runs into that barbarian camp I had been waiting for to spawn, on the way to Denmark.
A watched pot never boils I guess.
[screenie]
(I can't put the screenies in yet because that computer is at home)
Austria has a couple of units milling about, but nothing too terrifying... warriors only. I figure I can take the second settler, and just hold onto him until I make peace with Austria... I'm certainly not going to send him unescorted towards the Alps, and no way am I allowing my lone warrior to go too far from Berlin.
Then I see the THIRD Austrian settler... and I'm like... what the HEY? How is that even possible? They must have rush bought one, popped one from policies, and slow-counted the other. My god, I'm pushing my resources to the max and just barely got my second city down.
And... my Settler sans Escort runs into that barbarian camp I had been waiting for to spawn, on the way to Denmark.
A watched pot never boils I guess.
Well, since Austria is not being overtly aggressive, and, thankfully, the barb camp had archers, my northern settler scampers back to safety to wait for my warrior, who then goes up with the settler to clear the camp.
Again, barbs don't join me. 0 for 3.
I settle Munich to the north, and start work on a Shrine there. Happiness is getting low. I think Hamburg is size 2 at this point, Berlin is size 3.
While Austria is being strangely compliant/complacent, I escort the other settler southwest, and found Cologne. All is good.
[screenie]
Then almost right away Rome and Russia DOW on me. I think I even had a Friendship with Rome. Not sure. I had some Friendships, but every last one of them gets broken in the near future.
Again, barbs don't join me. 0 for 3.
I settle Munich to the north, and start work on a Shrine there. Happiness is getting low. I think Hamburg is size 2 at this point, Berlin is size 3.
While Austria is being strangely compliant/complacent, I escort the other settler southwest, and found Cologne. All is good.
[screenie]
Then almost right away Rome and Russia DOW on me. I think I even had a Friendship with Rome. Not sure. I had some Friendships, but every last one of them gets broken in the near future.
I'm guessing Austria is miffed because I was buying up tiles on their border, told them to take a hike when they asked me stop, and then ambush-whacked two of their settlers. I guess I can kind of see their point.
Rome and Russia? Must be my rapid expansion (that 4th city) and coveting lands, and the DOW on Austria. I'm guessing. Oh... and my 1 man army.
I'm getting a lot of visits from other rulers telling me I'm a real dick and that my army is pitiful.
Rome and Russia? Must be my rapid expansion (that 4th city) and coveting lands, and the DOW on Austria. I'm guessing. Oh... and my 1 man army.
I'm getting a lot of visits from other rulers telling me I'm a real dick and that my army is pitiful.
Well, not much I can do now except position my army somewhere between Cologne (exposed belly to the Romans) and Hamburg (exposed eastern wing to the Russians). So he's sitting on the lawn outside Berlin. I've got a Warrior about 12 turns from completion in Hamburg.
There is going to be a 7 turn delay in switching to the G. Lighthouse because of the Rome/Russia DOWs as I wait for that Warrior in Hamburg to finish... I remember this quite clearly. 7 turns. I almost switched right away, but decided I really needed that 2nd Warrior. Where o where has Germany's special app gone?
So when I eventually switch to G. Lighthouse 7 turns later, due to no border growth and city placement, despite being size 3, it will take Hamburg about 110 turns to complete the G. Lighthouse.
There is going to be a 7 turn delay in switching to the G. Lighthouse because of the Rome/Russia DOWs as I wait for that Warrior in Hamburg to finish... I remember this quite clearly. 7 turns. I almost switched right away, but decided I really needed that 2nd Warrior. Where o where has Germany's special app gone?
So when I eventually switch to G. Lighthouse 7 turns later, due to no border growth and city placement, despite being size 3, it will take Hamburg about 110 turns to complete the G. Lighthouse.
The one good thing about Germany's start position and my city placement is that Berlin is well-centered. One man really can cover all 4 cities, provided I'm only being attacked at 1 city at a time.
Btw, it occurs to me I may have more than 1 save of this game, as I was renaming the save file as I progressed. So I may be able to get a few good screenies other than just the present one.
Ha! Plus the autosaves, forgot about those!
Btw, it occurs to me I may have more than 1 save of this game, as I was renaming the save file as I progressed. So I may be able to get a few good screenies other than just the present one.
Ha! Plus the autosaves, forgot about those!
