1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Exotic Unit Pack - Mod Collaboration Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Mod Components' started by sman1975, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Hello,

    This thread is being used to add comments, suggestions, report errors, etc., with the Exotic Units Mod located at:

    Civfanatics: https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/exotic-units-pack-beta.26587/
    Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1259586334

    I've received many suggestions for adding units to the mod, and I've designed the mod to easily accommodate these requests. However, I'd appreciate anyone wanting a new unit added to provide some suggestions on what it should look like. Here are some examples of the kind of information I'd like you to provide when asking for a new unit:

    - Is the new unit a Mercenary unit or Regular unit?

    - Does it replace any unit in the game or is it stand alone?

    - What is the prerequisite Tech for the new unit?

    - What should its stats be? Numbers like the Combat Strength, Combat Ranged Strength, Moves, Visibility, etc. If you're not sure what the numbers should be, is there a similar unit already in the game?

    - What Promotions should the unit automatically receive?

    - Is there a required building in the city before the unit can be built?

    - Are there any units already out there that you would like the new unit to look like?

    The more of this information you can provide, the more closely I can build the unit you would like to see.

    Appreciate you're helping me help you... :lol:

    Thanks!

    sman

    *************************** Original Post ********************************************
    Greetings - this is a placeholder post for a new mod that will add a Camel unit, and Camels as a Resource.

    Initially, I see two basic purposes of the mod:

    1. Add the "Camel" unit - straightforward. Just need some artwork and normal unit definitions.

    2. Add the "Camels" resource - straightforward or complicated, depending on how we add the resource to the game.

    Ok, back to #1 (unit): I'll need some data points to build the unit. Basically, we need to decide what time in history the unit will appear and when it will no longer be viable. Is it a melee or ranged unit? What special capabilities should it have? Once we clarify these things, I can look for existing artwork out there that can be repurposed for this unit.

    #2 (resource) is trickier. If we want Camels to be generated on the map (like other resources), it's complicated and I've never done this before. I've reviewed several threads on how to add resources, so I know it can be done, but I will take me a bit of time (and perhaps luck!) to get it working. I'm confident I can do this, but it might take me a few days. And again, a bit of luck...

    We can also add Camels as a resource that becomes available by constructing a new building, like a "Bedouin Corral" or whatever the right term is for corral. This would create a Camel resource that the player could then use to build the Camel unit. Would take a couple of minutes to do this. And no luck required... :crazyeye:

    Can also create the building first, as a temporary measure to test the Camel unit, then add the resource when I get it working.

    Any feedback is appreciated. Help me build the mod you'd want to play. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
    Asterix Rage likes this.
  2. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Hey.

    So, basically, what I was thinking was a ranged unit for hit and run tactics. Basically the camel archer unit from Arabia. Arabia's UU can be replaced by a swordsman replacement called a Ghazi. I suppose they can spread religion to cities when they attack, and have a bonus when fighting in desert, or something?

    The focus, however, is the camels. I suppose constructing a building for the resource is fine. But we have to decide what the building is, and what era and what time.

    Historically, Persia was known to use them. So, I would say in the classical era would be great. Let's say that they are unlocked along with the horseman with the tech being horseback riding. I guess they too can upgrade into the knight. Or, if possible, a stronger version of the camels. Maybe a melee unit, or something. That's up to you, honestly.

    If you're going for a building, let's say the city has to be founded on or next to a desert tile. If a resource, the camels can be founded on desert tiles.

    That's all I got for now. I haven't looked into modding that much, so I don't know if certain things are possible or not. If they aren't, do tell me. If they are, great!

    Thanks for the time you're taking on this.
     
  3. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Good feedback. I'll start gathering resources to use for this. If we go with a building (at least for V1), it shouldn't take very long to build this. Can save the map-based resources for V2.

    I'll post the V1 BETA mod in the Resources area and post a link to it in this thread. Maybe later today if I can get away from the Mrs. and the cats... :lol:
     
  4. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Haha.

    Again, thanks for your time!
     
  5. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    OK - from reviewing all the artwork I could find on this site, as well as Steam, here's what I'd suggest for V1:

    1. Add the Ghazi Swordsman (Classical Era) to the Arabian Civ. Will give him an extra promotion or two so players who like the Arabian civ hopefully won't be too upset.
    2. Make the Camel Archer unit available to all civs, Classical Era (horseback riding), ranged so he compliments the regular Horseman. Stats will be weaker than normal Camel Archer, as that's late Medieval Era. Will compensate that with #3 below.
    3. Add a Camel Rifleman (found some artwork that may be OK - testing to follow) - Renaissance (Gunpowder), obsoletes at Combustion.

    I prefer to add new units rather than replace existing ones, where possible. Seems like every mod I've done in the past the "took away" a unique unit, there was always a few players who like things the way they were and didn't appreciate the change. So, it's possible to "recolor" the Camel Archer artwork and create a completely new unit and keep it separate from the Arabian civ's version. Since it's coming in earlier than the Camel Archer, the Arabian player could see it as an earlier version.

    I'll start the mod without #1 above, and just get the latter two finished then perhaps you could let me know if we need to proceed with the UU replacement or not.


    You mentioned elephants in the original request - what did you envision doing with them?
     
  6. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Yeah, that's fine.

    Adding units rather than replacing is better in my opinion, too. Although, is the camel rifleman ranged or melee?
     
  7. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I only have the model, but from initial looks it uses the Moroccan Berber animations - so I think it's melee, but I could experiment with that - I've had some luck converting melee to ranged units in the past.
     
  8. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Oh ok.

    (I don't really know what to say in situations, so this feels very awkward for me to just say "oh ok" and be done. Lol)
     
  9. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Hey, no worries. I appreciate the feedback. Helps steer me in the right direction.

    I'm harvesting the original Camel Archer (can we call him CA for now? Saves me and my poor typing skills lots of time) art from the original game. Was planning to recolor the rider's outfit from one of shiny armor to perhaps black, with red trim, like the Berber cav unit. Will make him look scarier... Can also make him a bit bigger or smaller to add even more differentiation.

    I've had some luck adding custom animations, so it might be possible to add the XCOM's green laser attack animations, the GDR's ice blue attacks, or the Byzantine's Dromon fire attack. Just a thought. The unit uses the "city attack" mini-fireball attack by default.

    Also - what are your thoughts on the names of these 2 units - early archer and rifleman?
     
  10. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Yeah, that's great.

    The Berber style actually fits the CA. Since camels are weaker, they wouldn't be able to carry that much weight on them, I would assume. (I did ride a camel once. It struggled when my dad got on, and he doesn't weigh that much.) And that much armor would be too much weight. But hey, that just details.

    Also, like I mentioned, it's a hit and run unit, so the "Can move after attacking" promotion would be important.

    I checked out some of your other mods, and I've gotta say: Nice job on the models.
     
  11. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Oops, didn't notice the name question.

    I think they could just be called Camel Archers, and Camel Riflemen. It's simple and tells you exactly what they are.
     
  12. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Thanks. Just standing on the shoulders of giants.

    How about "Camel Bowman" and "Camel Rifleman" as working names for the units? If we leave the Camel Archers in for the Arabian civ, we'd need a different name.

    Move after attack is definitely in. Some other possibilities:

    1. +33% attack in desert tiles
    2. Double move in desert tiles
    3. Could do away with "no defensive bonus" promotion or even perhaps +33% defense
    4. No movement cost to pillage
    5. "Feared Elephant" promotion (renamed of course): enemy units receive -10% Combat Strength when adjacent to any unit with this promotion

    Or anything else that looks promising. I like 1 & 2 for the Camel Bowman, and perhaps 5 as well. For the Camel Rifleman, maybe 1, 3, & 5?

    However you want it structured is fine. Just let me know what you think the free promotions should be (ones automatically awarded when built).
     
  13. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Camel Bowman. Yeah, that works.

    For 1, how would that work for ranged units? Does the unit have to stand in a desert tile, or the opponent? 2 is great. I think 33% defense in desert tiles, maybe? But I think we're making it too OP here. (Just for the CB.) I think only the Camel Rifleman should get 5.

    So, here's what I'm thinking:

    Camel Bowman: 1, 2, and 4.
    Camel Rifleman: 1,3, and 5.

    These are just the free promotions.
     
  14. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    For ranged units, the Combat Strength of the unit would be increased +33% if the Camel Bowman (CB) fires a ranged shot from a desert tile. The target could be anywhere, even in the ocean. Same for the Camel Rifleman (CR).

    Will put your free promotion suggestions into the unit definitions. Plus move after attack. It's a good mix.

    OP is a problem with new units. I do tend to get carried away with this. There are two basic fixes for that, if we want to add enough promotions to give the unit the "flavor" you're seeking:
    1. Nerf the unit, e.g. make the CB weaker than the Horseman unit it complements. For the CR, make it weaker than the Cavalry unit (close to the Lancer stats), which is its more or less contemporary.
    2. Limit the number which can be built. This is a bit problematic if we allow the CB to upgrade to the CR. The game doesn't check the build limit for a unit when you upgrade it. Say we set the build limit at 5 for each unit. If you have 5 CBs then discover Gunpowder, you can now build 5 CRs, then upgrade the older CBs and now have 10 CRs. If they're a bit overpowered, they'll be twice as overpowered when there are twice as many.

    From my experience, players really don't like #2, so I'd recommend #1. There is an inherent limitation tying the unit to a Camel strategic resource. If we stick with buildings, than you can only build 1 unit for each City, as the Camel resource would be consumed. Same is true if we actually solve the Camels on map problem. Either of these techniques solve the upgrade problem, as you're limited to the number of Camel units you have, of any kind, by the number of actual Camel resources you have.

    I'm thinking something like "Camel Bazaar" or "Souq al Jamal" for the building required to produce 1 camel resource, and make it only buildable in a city on or adjacent to a desert tile. Can give a couple of other "mini-market" benefits, like increased gold, merchant slot, maybe an extra trade route.
     
  15. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Now, I guess the camel units are weaker than horses. The camels are a ranged mounted unit, so they'll be behind anyways, and are mostly for hit and run, so I don't think they'd need that much health. The knights, and the horsemen would be the ones in the front, alongside any other units you have.

    I think we can have both buildings. The Souq al Jamal could be a wonder, maybe? Don't worry about the quotes on wonders. Many mods don't add that, so . . .

    The Souq al Jamal could add additional camel resources to any desert city. Let's say 2 additional camels for every city that has a camel bazaar. Must have a Camel Bazaar in at least 1 city? Also adds happiness.

    I hope that's not too much to ask for. I tend to get ambitious, despite the fact that I'm not doing much other than giving ideas.
     
  16. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Good ideas! I can make the combat strength of the camel units weaker than their contemporaries, but make their ranged combat strength competitive. Makes them kind of a glass cannon, which I think I like.

    If we make the Souq a wonder - should it be a National or World wonder? Difference is every civ can build a national wonder, even if other civs have built it. Only one civ can build the world wonder.
     
  17. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    I think it should be a National wonder. There are many other countries in the Middle East that have something similar to this. (Although a lot of times with different animals.)

    As mentioned before, I think at least 1 city should have a Camel Bazaar for you to be able to build the Souq. Then, every city that is producing a camel resource now produces 3.

    I don't think this would be too OP, as let's be honest, you're not gonna settle in the desert just for a measly camel. Unless you have the Petra, which only affects the city it's built in
     
  18. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Got it. This is starting to shape up nicely. I think I have enough to go on. Will let you know if there are any sticking points that pop up, or when the first version is uploaded. Thanks for all the suggestions - they really help.
     
  19. DracoTheGreat

    DracoTheGreat Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    You're welcome!

    And thanks for taking time on this mod!
     
  20. sman1975

    sman1975 King

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2016
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    upload_2017-12-2_12-38-20.jpeg

    Camel Promotions:
    "Sandstorm" - for the CB: Move after combat, +33% attack bonus when attacking from Desert tiles, doubles its movement in Desert tiles, and can pillage at no movement cost
    "Sirocco" - for the CR: Move after combat, +33% attack bonus when attacking from and +33% defense bonus when attacked while in Desert tiles, enemy units receive -10% Combat Strength when adjacent
     

Share This Page