Expanding CHina in Civ V

SuperWaffle247

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So in the wake of the successful India split from More Civs and the Celtic split from Hiram, and also the upcoming Greece and Polynesia splits, I was thinking about what extra Civs we could develop for China.

The incarnation of China in Civ 5 as is isn't as much of a travesty as India was, for example. China celebrates its characteristic of having a continuous Chinese power for millennial. So I don't think I'd advocate a China split; instead, a China expansion.

The two civs I had ideas for were the Manchus and Qin. The Manchus could take a number of influences, pre-Qing dynasty and post. I see them as definitely having a Bannerman UU. I also envisioned a UA involving pledging to protect city-states as a representation of the Eight Banners system. I was working on a UB from the Qing Dynasty period and interactions with British imperialism, but it's not quite developed yet.

My Qin ideas are much less developed. The leader would be Qin Shi Huang (obviously), and he'd be a conqueror. I was thinking he'd get bonuses against city resistance effects, although a number of Civs have done this already. The uniques could be terractoa-themed.

I also don't really know what to do with the China civ as is in relation to these ideas. I don't think Qin and The Manchus would take anything away from China. A more elaborate expansion would require a rename/redesign of China under Wu.

I'm having these thoughts because while CHina may have been a continuous polity for a very long time, there's a lot of fascinating aspects of it that aren't covered by the existing Civ.

Does anyone else have ideas? (Also please move/delete if we're not in the right spot)
 

JFD

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Oh, erhm, perhaps there's already a China split in the works. Not to say you can't develop your own; but rather if your thought was that no one else had considered it, I thought I'd give you this heads up.
 

SuperWaffle247

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Oh, erhm, perhaps there's already a China split in the works. Not to say you can't develop your own; but rather if your thought was that no one else had considered it, I thought I'd give you this heads up.

Not sure I was aware of an existing development - in that case, I'd still like to discuss it or we can just let this thread die. Who's doing the split (you?) Presumably it hasn't been announced?
 

JFD

Kathigitarkh
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It is a pseudo-collaborative effort, but I am leading much of the split. You can't be expected to be aware, of course, as it hadn't been announced (announcements like that feel so obnoxious to me).

My part of the project, however, with Janboruta's indispensable help, is in doing the most significant dynasties: the Ming, the Qing, the Tang and the Han. But of course, I'd love to hear your ideas (if you had any relating to these four).
 

SuperWaffle247

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It is a pseudo-collaborative effort, but I am leading much of the split. You can't be expected to be aware, of course, as it hadn't been announced (announcements like that feel so obnoxious to me).

My part of the project, however, with Janboruta's indispensable help, is in doing the most significant dynasties: the Ming, the Qing, the Tang and the Han. But of course, I'd love to hear your ideas (if you had any relating to these four).

I see. Sounds good. I'm looking forward to seeing the development and results! I don't have much to bring to the table but ideas, Civ icons, and the ability to research.

I still stand by my original ideas. A Manchuria civ incorporating the Qing would I think be more interesting than Qing by itself - though I can also see both coexisting.
 

SuperWaffle247

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I can see both co-existing too ;)

I see...my argument in favor of blobbing Qing and Manchuria is because I think it's not inappropriate and also it'd help keep the number of planned civs under control. (also I have an icon based on the Qing dragon flag if you want it)

Regarding the ones you're tackling...Tang keeps Wu? You could do a tribuatary type ability for Ming. This'd allow for some complex but interesting new gameplay strategies. Maybe they get bonuses for puppeted cities or for concluding deals with other players.

(also I can't fix my thread title right? Can a mod do it?)
 

JFD

Kathigitarkh
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woo, i had planned to create the qing and the ming

I'd be happy to help with the xml and research

I only have the Ming UUs - the Hand-Cannoneer or the Shenji Musketeer, and the Tidu - planned, so feel free to offer ideas for the Tang, Han or Qing.

I see...my argument in favor of blobbing Qing and Manchuria is because I think it's not inappropriate and also it'd help keep the number of planned civs under control. (also I have an icon based on the Qing dragon flag if you want it)

Regarding the ones you're tackling...Tang keeps Wu? You could do a tribuatary type ability for Ming. This'd allow for some complex but interesting new gameplay strategies. Maybe they get bonuses for puppeted cities or for concluding deals with other players.

Yes, Tang is Wu. I do have a Ming UA and UU that revolves around making tributaries out of City-States and puppeted City-States.
 

SuperWaffle247

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Looks exciting. I didn't see a place where a Fire Lance UU could work out, which is a bummer. What becomes of the Chu Ko Nu? Han?
 

JFD

Kathigitarkh
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The Cho-ko-nu moves to another Chinese civ, that is being managed by another person. But I won't step out of the bounds of my authority and say what that civ is; though maybe it's not too hard to infer at any rate.
 

SuperWaffle247

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The Cho-ko-nu moves to another Chinese civ, that is being managed by another person. But I won't step out of the bounds of my authority and say what that civ is; though maybe it's not too hard to infer at any rate.

Of course. I'm just glad nothing's really lost.

I think it might be fun to represent the civil service exam - which lasted a very long time - through a unique specialist for one of the new civs.
 

sukritact

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The Cho-ko-nu moves to another Chinese civ, that is being managed by another person. But I won't step out of the bounds of my authority and say what that civ is; though maybe it's not too hard to infer at any rate.
Might as well reveal it! I see no reason to keep this secret, though I thank you for your consideration. :)

The Cho-ko-nu/Zhuge nu will be going to the Shu, as a representation of the Three Kingdoms.

The current Chinese UA will be going here too, though altered and rebranded as "Romance of the Three Kingdoms".
 

janboruta

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It's still a good while until those will be made, I think, as I'm always on duty I have lots and lots of more immediate art to do. JFD and Sukritact both can outpace me with their speedy coding. Unless, of course, I make stuff in advance. :mischief:
 

JFD

Kathigitarkh
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I see...my argument in favor of blobbing Qing and Manchuria is because I think it's not inappropriate and also it'd help keep the number of planned civs under control. (also I have an icon based on the Qing dragon flag if you want it)

You're right, it would be fine. But there is some dissension as to the choice of leader and consequentially the focus, hence they are to remain separate. I do have an icon for the Qing (or, rather, Janboruta has it - I hope, at least. I didn't get a copy of that one :()

I suppose it's fine to showcase the icons that I have; as a sort of proof of development.



The Ming - done by Pouakai.



The Han - done by Janboruta.
 

Krajzen

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Uhm... Could you show current plans for each Chinese civ (UA/UU/UB) or is it a secret? ;)

And how advanced the mod is? ;)
 

JFD

Kathigitarkh
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Hm, this isn't intended to be open development (not my style). The mod is in the very early stages of design. In fact, this dynasties split is the penultimate mod on my civ-modding list (although we'll see how long that lasts).

Suffice to say, however, I'm unable to decide upon UUs for any of the other civs outside the Ming. There are just so many possibilities I'm having a hard time deciding :) So I won't have any firm designs until I determine the UAs, and I'll let UU choices fall in line with that. The UB's have been allocated, though, and they're nothing out of the ordinary - Shaolin Temple for the Qing, Pavilion for the Tang, Paper Maker for the Han.
 

TPangolin

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The Han vs. Vietnam.

huehuehuehue
 

SuperWaffle247

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I think it might be fun to represent the civil service exam - which lasted a very long time - through a unique specialist for one of the new civs.

Expanding on this: Tang UA: Imperial Examinations - Palaces and Courthouses gain a unique specialist slot (Bureaucrat?) that does....something. I was thinking adding happiness.

How should non-capital, non-conquered cities get a Bureaucrat spot (or should they not?) ? Could do a unique building or give it to the most institution-like default building.

Or you could put it with a Song civ, focused on science with a Fire Lance UU and a Junk Ship, maybe.
 

JFD

Kathigitarkh
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I'll certainly consider it. A unique specialist with some sort of mechanical function would work best.

For now, I wont plan on the Song. It would be room for the Fire Lance, certainly, though, if I did.
 
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