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Expansion Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Xineoph, Jan 5, 2006.

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  1. Frank Dahl

    Frank Dahl Chieftain

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    The issue at hand is picking civilizations, not filling out empty plots on a world map, which, arguably, selecting anything from Africa or America would be doing. Who ever heard of the Zulus in school history classes for not to mention various indian tribes, in other connection than their extinction by the hand of other civilizations. Talking civilizations, they should be considered great contributors to world history, which for better or worse has been been centred in and around Mesopotamia.
    Besides that, including Canada is intriguing, and could ultimately win my approval. It is nice with some innovative suggestions, though the mark on world history is harder to find.
    My own far fetched suggestion would be that of the Huns. I know, their mark on history resembles that of the Mongols, but surely had impact on 'world' history with the upheavel they brought with them.

    Other than that; The Israelis and Turks.
     
  2. dreamcaster

    dreamcaster Chieftain

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    Portugal is mandatory! It's thanks to Portugal that the so called discovery age began!

    Nation Leaders:
    Dom Henrique - The Navigator
    "Altough not a King, he was the one that gave strenght to the Discovery Expedition of the XV and XVI century."
    Dom Afonso Henriques
    "The first Portuguese King, self proclaimed king of Portugal in 1139 and recognized by Castela (Spain) in 1143, he's reign extended for 40 years."

    This is why I think Portugal should be on the expansion!

    (Custom civ would be nice also)
     
  3. frogger3d

    frogger3d Chieftain

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    The dutch are not unimportant too with great leaders as Balkenende and Pim Fortuyn.
     
  4. Atropos

    Atropos Beware my geekhood

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    Um... I agree that the Dutch are worthy of inclusion, but I seriously doubt that anyone outside the Netherlands would qualify Balkenende and Pim Fortuyn, neither of whom has had much of an impact on the world, as "great leaders."
     
  5. frogger3d

    frogger3d Chieftain

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    I guess my sarcasm wasn't obvious :) I'm affraid the dutch haven't had many well known great leaders besides Willem van Oranje.. Maybe Wilhelmina (the government was in control) or Michiel de Ruyter (was not a leader but an admiral)?
     
  6. Caine13

    Caine13 Chieftain

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    Ok I am getting to this thread way late but I feel like I have to throw in my 2 cents.

    Talking with a civ player here at work he wants to play as Hitler. We came up with some pretty good ideas to go along with Hitler but I am sure it would offend more people then it would appease. Like what if you could have a third option when taking a city. As Hitler you could change the city into a consentration camp a la Auschwitz. The only thing that would come from this city is massive production. Give him some sort of genocide type trait. Special units like the SS. This would probably piss most of the Jewish playing population off but is it not a big part of history?

    Just an idea. Most likely to never come to fruition.
     
  7. Xineoph

    Xineoph Prince

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    Putting Hitler in the game is one thing....but giving him a Death Camp.

    That is ****ing disgusting. -.-
     
  8. Depravo

    Depravo Siring Bastards

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    Yeah, great idea. Really great. Let's not only get the expansion banned, let's get the entire development team extradited :rolleyes:

    Don't makes harder for those of us who actually WANT to see Hitler in the game...
     
  9. warham40k

    warham40k Chieftain

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    Personally I feel that Hitler should NOT be included in any sort of civ.

    Perhaps one day there may be a place for Hitler in a game as something other than a target. But that is only after the holocaust and other atrocities are forgotten or blured by time.

    It is not just a forgive and forget sort of thing.

    I tried to think and define my exact reasons why Hitler should not be included. And either I kept coming up blank or I just couldn't define in words what I wanted to say. Maybe someone else can put into words what I want to say, but I can't really. I can only say that Hitler should NOT ever be included in any game as a playable character/civilization in my lifetime.
     
  10. Caine13

    Caine13 Chieftain

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    OK, so maybe the concentration camps is a little too far fetched, but I think Hitler should be included. What, Ghengis Kahn never killed thousands of innocent people? George Washington did not have slaves? Ceaser did not conquer, kill and enslave half the world? I understand these were farther back in time, but Civ is after all a game. And what could be cooler than having the SS as your special troop? By the way, where did the Panzer tank originate from? Yup, the Nazi's. Oh well it was just a thought. Didn't mean to offend anyone, but take away the extermination of Jews, and Hitler had one of the greatest Military minds in the history of the world.
     
  11. ownedbyakorat

    ownedbyakorat Warlord

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    Mao has a body count that makes Hitler look like an amateur, yet he is in the game. CIV is largely a war game, and a somewhat historical one at that, and thus Hitler, as odious as he is, probably belongs in the game, as does Stalin (another guy with a higher body count than Hitler).

    Approximate body counts:
    Mao - 100-150 million
    Stalin - 50 million
    Hitler - 40 million

    Hitler (and Stalin) was playable in the Civ II WW2 scenario... I don't recall any brouhaha about that.
     
  12. chef pablo

    chef pablo Warlord

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    there is a thread for the hitler debate,I peorsonally dont like it,but having a an old lady living next door who had numbers tatooed to her arm might make me a little biased.
     
  13. ownedbyakorat

    ownedbyakorat Warlord

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    I had a quarter of my family wiped out in the Holocaust. But I don't cower, cry, or throw a tantrum at the mention of Hitler or his inclusion in history.
     
  14. chef pablo

    chef pablo Warlord

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    I apologise if i offended,The funny thing is ive met a few people who are dirrectly linked to the hollacost and they seem more at peace with the subject than most people.I duno maybee thats something they have decided to move past or theres a numbing affect there.
     
  15. Technocactus

    Technocactus Lurker

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    Hitler wasn't a great enough leader to represent Germany in Civ anyway.
     
  16. Hellfire

    Hellfire Prince

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    There's more to this than Hitler's body count or how evil he was. It's about how history perceives Hitler, how the winners wrote history, and how long will History show Hitler as a controversial figure while people still have strong memories and images of him as totally evil.

    Alexander probably had a huge body count, but 3000 years removed he's considered a great military leader, because that's how history has portrayed him. Today he'd probably be considered a megalomaniacal tyrant for conquering so many people, but you cannot discount how brilliant he was. We can do that now because we have no emotional tie to him or the things he did. We analyze him coldly, and because historically, conquerors were held in high esteem until very recently in history.

    Hitler stirs up far more debate than any other figure. He was an evil man, he did very evil things, and the end of him and his reign was rather dramatic. Since then the entire world has used him as the ultimate bad guy. The fact that he stirs up so much discussion, and that there is so much info out there on him, makes him pretty much taboo. You do anything that doesn't involve filling him directly with lot of bullets AKA Wolfenstein 3D and you are basically going to get people protesting your software.

    No one is despiting anything about if Hitler was a great leader or not, it's just not worth the trouble it will cause if you are just a software company trying to make a buck.

    As a side note, I was just listening to NPR and Americans to this day see stalin as evil, but today Russians are still debating this. Even to me it's shocking, but it's how history has written him in our minds. His actions didn't come to light years later after his death, so despite the body count, it has less of an impact. Same thing with Mao. His actions are just not having the same impact because they get hidden, or blurred, that and China is like another world to americans. All the factors surrounding WW2, Germany, and Hitler make him the perfect ultimate historical bad guy.
     
  17. Hawkeye2007

    Hawkeye2007 Chieftain

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    Why is this even a debate to include an insane mass murderer? Would you include Saddam or Slobadan? Think about what your arguing about!
     
  18. Hellfire

    Hellfire Prince

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    See what I mean? This is the point. I'm not saying Hawkeye is wrong, and I'm not saying anyone else is right. I'm saying this is how strongly people feel about this. I don't care what your viewpoint is, you cannot and will not get Hitler into a game like this for another 100 years because people will severely disagree with you on the topic and the controversy is too strong, so the debate must end.
     
  19. Hawkeye2007

    Hawkeye2007 Chieftain

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    Extremely well put Hellfire.
     
  20. Ankenaton

    Ankenaton "The Heretic"

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    I agree. With that whole rush towards self and outside imposed censorship trumpeted by the likes of Hilary Clinton and gang after the Grand Theft Auto Mod "Crisis"; can you imagine what would happen if Adolf were included in the main game or any official expansions. Firaxis and its publishers would be crucified! Creative expression is walking a fine line within the USA and a good portion of the world.
     
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