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Experimenting with Liberty + Patronage

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by igorsrs, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. igorsrs

    igorsrs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Brazilian Empire
    While Civ6 still sucks (AI), I've been trying some non-standard openings with Civ V, avoiding either full Liberty or Tradition openers, and/or ignoring the standard early National College as well.

    One of those wonky strategies ended up being pretty powerful, mixing Liberty opening (Colective Rule + Citizenship), followed by Patronage (till Scholasticism).

    Liberty strong early game means extra cities with more rosources to sell. I also add some extra archers for barb quests. Patronage opener + Philanthropy makes CS bribes really efficient, and whenever I have excess happiness, I will sell ALL luxuries, INCLUDING last copies.

    National College only gives 6 science + 0.75 per population in the capital. If Liberty is done right, your capital should be somewhat small (8 to 10) in the Middle ages. So, instead of sacrificing a lot of hammers on that, I try some wonders instead.

    Petra sometimes is possible, but too much of a gamble. But Machu Picchu, is damn easy. Very few AIs take the Crossbow path, you can easily hard build it by turn 95ish by caravan feeding a city with a bunch (4~5) of mines around it, and beelining Guilds after getting all Ancient era techs.
    (Opinion: For ANY Liberty strategy, I think you should be going for XBs anyway, to get some extra cities, always! It is not efficient to self found them all)

    I don't think National College is required at all. Science may get a bit slow in the early Medieval, but when Scholasticism kicks in, things turn around. I can get a third of my science from it.

    Liberty finisher engineer is better used in something crazier, like Forbidden Palace, LToP. If not possible, I use it to get a scientist instead.

    I didn't find it too hard to get 6~8 CSs aliances by Renaissance, and ALL by Industrial (even against Alex). After that, any VC is pretty easy.
     
  2. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

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    Apr 7, 2012
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    358
    Location:
    Cambridge
    What level are you playing?
     
  3. igorsrs

    igorsrs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Brazilian Empire
    Deity, all else is too easy to be fun.
     
  4. mbbcam

    mbbcam Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Cambridge
    The other question I should have asked is: "which civ?" I'm guessing this would work better with some than others. I remember tommynt described a Tradition / Liberty mix with Poland.
     
  5. igorsrs

    igorsrs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Brazilian Empire
    So far I got it running with Morroco, Aztecs, Japan and Songhai.
    Alex would be an obvious one here, but I dislike playing overpowered civs... it is like playing Immortal, easy mode.
    I guess any civ with wide play potential should be fine, it is a Liberty based strategy.
    I think it is more about the map, than about the civ. Gold rich maps (calendar and traping luxuries), for me, are liberty maps.
    I don't think this could work well with Tradition, one have to finish it fast to get all the good bonuses fast.
    Liberty right side is not amazing... good but not great... so you can delay it for a while.

    There is more critical info, I could add, but those are from my personal play style.

    Capital BO:
    Scout
    Monument and Scout (map dependent order)
    Shrine
    2 archers
    Caravan (if I have a route safe from barbs, to an non-agressive AI, for science)
    Settlers

    Notice the 2 archers. Sometimes, a 3rd one may be added.
    They are important to make the most out of the "barbarian age", for CS quests.
    I find no problem delaying a city for 3~4 turns for the sake of getting a CS quest.

    I also follow FilthyRobot liberty guide more closely than Acken's, specially on how wide I go.
    I usually go for Crossbow + Knight conquest to expand my lands to at least 10 cities.
    In my beter games I have 15+ cities before ideologies, even for "peaceful" victories (Science, cultural, diplo).
    Domination is pretty obvious after that, but I don't always do.
    But thats how I do, others are likely to disagree
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2018
  6. murd

    murd Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    I played a zulu game recently where I went Liberty (full) -> Patronage -> Commerce -> Order. I meant to go autocracy but two civs went autocracy and none order so I just went for the free policies. Wasn't able to win with Domination because Hiawatha had good terrain + 20 something cities. I won an easy Diplomatic victory on the first world leader vote though. I was able to save a lot of gold from generating merchants and such, and they give ridiculous gold when you go patronage + commerce. I honestly think I played fairly sloppy and could have won a full domination if I had played better (or had got autocracy, I was really close). I ended up spamming merchant specialists last 40 turns or so because I realized where the game was going and that I didn't need the science, also started selling my research labs to maximize gold last 20 turns or so. I ended up with about 15,000 more than I needed, but whatever. AIs (England, Hiawatha) were being obnoxious about city states, so I dumped like 10k gold on cs the turn before first world leader vote and DoWed both of them to ensure they wouldn't flip cs. It's a really good combination for converting early conquest into a diplomatic victory. I didn't play it optimally for sure.. Would probably be disgusting with Greece, they are good CB rush because of Hoplites, and then get more out of patronage.

    My game was:
    Early CB rush to sack Egypt (he didn't build any wonders, what a dick). I think if he had built some wonders it might have helped me a lot.
    Impi + XB for Askia, Boudicca, and Washington (Washington was really tough because he had minutemen + a lot of jungles near him)
    (I got attacked by Morocco and England a lot here and had to defend for a bit)
    Impi + artillery + cavalry + gatlings + xb for Ahmad Al Mansur (should have got this going faster)
    I launched some wars to burn some of Hiawatha and Elizabeth's cities but didn't get close to the capitals. I went into a pattern of set up my logistics artillery on the city I wanted to raze, take it in 1-2 turns, and then use artillery to pick off unit surge before making peace. I mostly did it to Hiawatha to slow him down, as he was the leader in every stat by a large amount. I initially thought I might make it to Elizabeth, but she had pretty annoying terrain, planes, and a pretty mediocre capital so I decided not to push for it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  7. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Igloovik
    Liberty/Patronage is my standard play. I like to play with lots of CS.
     

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