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Exploration vessels improvement in Civ VI?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Erratica, May 30, 2016.

  1. Erratica

    Erratica Chieftain

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    I wonder if we would see an improvement of the exploration capabilities in the upcoming Civ VI.

    Currently if you are playing on a Huge or Gigantic (mod) map we use Caravels to explore the world as those are the earliest possible ocean entering ships (not considering any earlier UU with such capabilities).

    Having the above we are really limited to explore only shores without any possibility to interact with the land. Playing on bigger maps means that we would lose a lot of turns to return to the location with land units and explore as they have a speed of 2 at sea.

    We know from history that the explorers used to explore inland with various success.

    There are few possibilities here if we want to improve/tweak:
    1. Allow the Caravels (or similar UU ships) to carry a single scout unit or/and a settler - maybe also limit what kind of units could be carried
    2. Knowing we would be able to combine units maybe we could combine a Caravel and a scout or/and a settler so they would move with the speed of the Caravel - maybe also limit what kind of units could be combined
    3. Allow the Caravels to execute an on shore action (mission) to explore a camp that is located next to water tile. Further to that when the mission is executed more tiles would be uncovered and mapped further inland.
    4. Other?
     
  2. qwerty25

    qwerty25 Prince

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    I like your combination idea most. Like:
    Normal scout sea mp:2, normal carvael mp:4. Combined speed mp:3.

    I don't like the 3rd idea Of the caramel creating a mission.

    Or rather instead make it a new amphibious unit like explorer that Has faster than 2mp on sea (3 to 5?) and normal 2mp land.

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
     
  3. Cerilis

    Cerilis Stormrider

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    New unit - Explorer. Upgrades scouts, can be attached to caravels and can construct coastal outposts that "reserve" land.
     
  4. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I LOVE this idea.
     
  5. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    Carrying a single unit would mean that I'd just spam a billion caravels with settlers on them... Maybe if caravels were made to be very expensive and have no upgrade path, I'd think twice about it, but the value of a new city in a prime location may be too great to balance such an approach.

    @Arilian: D'oh! I never knew that about Portugal in Civ IV! :eek: Makes me regret never playing them, as exploration and settling of new continents was one of my favorite activities. Oh well.
     
  6. Arilian

    Arilian King

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    This was the case in CIV 4. (portugal UU was able to carry a settler, other caravels a scout/explorer/spy)
    It was better imho.
     
  7. Cerilis

    Cerilis Stormrider

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    Portuguese are the more badass explorers anyway. There are historians that believe that they already knew of Brazil before Colombus and the Treaty of Tordesillas.
     
  8. Erratica

    Erratica Chieftain

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    I agree this should be carefully considered. However it would be nice to have a way to do so.

    Other opportunity is to play with the movement points of specific exploration units. For example a specific promotion (with a cost e.g. 200 gold?) gained through policy that would make the scout or the settler move +1 on sea.

    Edit: The current exploration policy tree could have this maybe after or with the Navigation school policy. Maybe a new one called "Brave new world". ;)
     
  9. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Prince

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    I think it's a good idea if embarked units can combine with an escort (the way builder or settler can to a military unit for protection). Perhaps give 3 embarked movement to joint unit. more in special cases.
     
  10. Erratica

    Erratica Chieftain

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    I guess we must expect reducing the maximum movement of the units to an average.

    I remember a similar thing when we combined a general and units to create the armies in Civ 3 if I recall correctly.
     
  11. stiiknafuulia

    stiiknafuulia King

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    Or why not have a Wonder or Policy give the ability to attach Settlers to Caravels? That way there's a cost to the ability, so there has to be some thinking and weighing of the options involved.

    Another possibility is that only a few Caravels could be 'treated' this way, but it could be a bit of a gamey solution.
     
  12. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I like the idea to have a Caravel carry an Explorer unit.

    Spain UU Conquistador could be a unique explorer with higher CS and ability to found cities on different continents.
     
  13. Ezumiyr

    Ezumiyr Warlord

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    Fishermen from all the western coast of Europe very likely knew that there were lands in the west. That includes portuguese, spanish, breton, english and icelandic.
     
  14. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Actually, that idea could be expanded

    Civilian units can be attached to military units

    Perhaps embarked units could be attached to non civilian naval units...
    so if you have a fleet, you can move units quickly and defensively.

    one would want to have "load" orders (if I select one of my land units and click on a coastal naval unit with no embarked unit attached, my land unit should move to that point embark and link with it.)

    Chances are they Believed there were lands in the west, but did not know it.*

    *actually Everyone knew there were lands in the west... they all "knew" that if you sailed west lonq enough you would reach Asia
     
  15. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    I thought the whole land units autoembarking thing was introduced only in order to avoid having whatever transport ships carrying any units, so as to make it easier for the AI to handle unit movement.

    If such a model is to be preserved, perhaps, after Astronomy or whatever equivalent tech, this new better and probably more expensive Explorer unit could autoembark just transforming itself into a Caravel with all its movement and sight radius perks, and not into a simple transport ship? And then back into Explorer upon reaching land, and so on?
     
  16. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions
     
  17. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well you would still have embarking..just like a civilian unit can move on its own, but you would have the possibility of linking them, to defend the embarked unit.

    I do think an Explorer unit (available with Astronomy, upgrade of Scout, when embarked has the sight+movement of a CivV Caravel) would be the best option.

    Actually in that case you could make the Caravel itself NOT an explorer unit but a more military one (the Sea unit has the better combat strength..the 'land unit with special embarked ability' has the better vision..and possibly better movement)
     
  18. Erratica

    Erratica Chieftain

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    I like the idea of explorers. Wonder how the settler would be balanced not to take 30 turns to get to Australia (or far away lands) on bigger maps and in the same time limit the "spamming" that might happen :lol:

    Maybe explore the colony option we saw in BE. So maybe a settler could build a normal insta workable city as long as it gets there. Maybe it could be promoted to something else which could be used for far away colonies with a movement bonus but with the limitation of being a colony settler that should grow to a workable city (if the players wants it to expand to a city at all).
     
  19. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    That would be a good second option with Astronomy/Navigation... an expensive Settler upgrade that
    1. moves fast (+1?2 move on land +2?3 when embarked)
    2. founds a city with a set of basic buildings... and maybe a builder
     
  20. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Prince

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    Perhaps it should be available by combining some civic cards and maybe a wonder. like economic/military: embarked movement +1, economic: new cities start with a monument. wonder\wildcard: new cities get a builder. Government/UA: new cities start with a harbor.

    In CiV you had conquistadors (Spain\CS gifts) that could found cities oversee and defend themselves.
     

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