Extra/Conditional Unique Units

[3Miro]

I have to think about the entire Merc scheme, so I am not sure which way it should go. In the end, we should have the Mercs as a useful feature, not something to be ignored.

One more point: Nationalism comes way too late. It makes sense to disable Mercs with it, but being so late anyway, we may just keep the Mercs for the entire duration of the mod (it is not like Nationalism ended the Mercs instantaneously).

 

[civ_king]

Mercenaries were super important in Western European wars

 

[The Turk]

Mercenaries were super important in Western European wars

That is why I'm saying that there should not be a price hike on them. Or else the human and AI player are not going to hire them at all! And then that creates a problem. I'm saying that to keep a standing army on the battlefield for ling periods of time was a very costly thing to do. Have you ever thought of having units cost nothing if stationed in a city, but begin to cost more an more when on the battlefield. There is already a system like that in the game, but it could be evolved. Needless to say, let's let the mod creators get on with the rescheming of the mercs

 

[ezzlar]

Mercs might have been important but instant created cheap units distorts game play mechanics. Thats why at least I feel they should be toned down. Maybe slower recruitment period. Or smaller pool of recruits.

You have a few good suggestions but please mind game balance!

 

[The Turk]

Mercs might have been important but instant created cheap units distorts game play mechanics. Thats why at least I feel they should be toned down. Maybe slower recruitment period. Or smaller pool of recruits.

You have a few good suggestions but please mind game balance!

I agree with you 100% heavy units should take a while to complete, but levy type units should not take that long to create.

 

[merijn_v1]

While 3Miro is working on the new Mercenary code, I think it's up to us to make a list of the regional mercs and find some nice art for the units. I started a list for you. Please comment the list. (I'm not sure if the ones with a questionmark a good for a merc.)

Brittania:
Scottish Highlander (Gallowglass) - Scotland
Welsch Longbowman - Wales

Italy:
Condottiere - Lombardy, Verona?, Tuscany?

Swiss:
Swiss Pikeman - Swabia, Tyrol, Burgundy?, Bavaria?

Scandinavia:
Hakkapeliitta (Hackapell) - Finland
Huscarl - ???

Germany:
Landsknecht - Swabia, Bavaria, Bohemia, Saxony, Lorraine, Franconia, Brandenburg (This also requires a new UU for Germany)

Netherlands:
Geuzen - Holland, Flanders
Fluyt - Holland, Flanders?

Byzantium:
Varangian Guard: Constantinople

Russia:
Zaphorozian Cossack - Zaphorozian
Don Cossack - Kuban

Dalmatia:
Pandur - Croatia
Hajduk - Serbia

Arabia:
Camel Archer/Gunner/Swordsman - Arabian Provinces (except Jerusalem?)
Mamluk? - Egypt
Black Guard - Morroco

Turkey:
Jannisary - Most of the Turkish provinces

Non Categorized:
Corsair - All mediterranian provinces (only the muslim ones?)

 

[The Turk]

The Varangian Guard should only be hirable from Constatinople only. And I don't know if I like the idea of having Janissaries as mercenaries, considering that they were the main bulk of the Ottoman Army, and equating them to mercenaries seems a bit strange IMO.

For the Arabs, I would add various Turkish Tribes that gave their loyalty to the Arab Caliphates. Also if the Arabian player controls North Africa, then Berber mercs should be allowed. For the Middle Eastern civs I would recommend looking at what Embyrodead for SoI merc for the various civs (Crusaders, Byzantines and Arabs). Turcpoles should be added as mercs for the Byzantines and the Crusaders.

As for a Christian held Jerusalem, the player should only get certain units, but some mercs should be religious and province based (as in certain religions can ONLY recruit those units).

 

[3Miro]

My take:

I have to check the Pundar, but Hajduk is outside of the mod timeline.

Janissary would not be a merc unit.

We should also double-check the timeline of the Cossack and their importance before Napoleon.

Mercs would also have a time period. Eastern Europe would get Khazars, Cumas and Pechenegs early on. Various Goths canbe added to the west as well.

 

[rock_star]

Mercs would also have a time period. Eastern Europe would get Khazars, Cumas and Pechenegs early on. Various Goths canbe added to the west as well.

Beat me to it. Bulgaria/Byz (and maybe the Rus'? Can't remember for sure . . . ) hired the various local steppe tribes to attack each other often. These would be great additions to the list.

I thought about war elephants, since I knew Charlemagne used them, but a quick check of wiki says Charlemagne had AN elephant, so I guess that idea's out.

 

[Morholt]

It's pandur, not pundar. They were first incorporated into the Austrian army in 1740, but the "style" is probably older than that since the Croats were near constantly fighting against Ottoman raiders.

And Cossacks were very important before Napoleon, that was just the first time they fought a western European army. See for instance the Khmelnytsky Uprising (Zaporozhian cossacks) and Conquest of Siberia (Don cossacks).

Another idea:
Black Watch (Scotland, Rifle Era)

 

[3Miro]

It's pandur, not pundar. They were first incorporated into the Austrian army in 1740, but the "style" is probably older than that since the Croats were near constantly fighting against Ottoman raiders.

And Cossacks were very important before Napoleon, that was just the first time they fought a western European army. See for instance the Khmelnytsky Uprising (Zaporozhian cossacks) and Conquest of Siberia (Don cossacks).

Another idea:
Black Watch (Scotland, Rifle Era)

Good research.

Remember we are talking about Mercenaries. We will introduce the unit that historically fought under different banner (pandur under Austria), earlier Croats wouldn't be relevant for the Merc mechanics (unless they served as merc). We can allow for some ahistoricity (like allow Pandurs from 1700 as opposed to 1740), but unless we have earlier Croat mercs, we should not go earlier than 1700.

Zaporozhian rebellion was also a rebellion. This would fit with the minor nation dynamics, but not mercs. We should have only one Cossack unit for the eastern provinces.

Black Watch is fitting.

 

[Morholt]

I mentioned Khmelnytsky's uprising to illustrate the significance of the Zaporozhians, not their mercenary-ness. There was actually several companies of Zaporozhians in a a sort of pseudo mercenary system in the Polish army, the Registered Cossacks (they were paid wages monthly, which makes them mercenary like compared to the rest of the Polish army which was either nobility or feudal levies).

Most importantly, there is a perfect Zaporozhian model by Bakuel here. Note that the Zaporozhians, unlike most other Cossacks, fought mostly on foot.

 

[3Miro]

I mentioned Khmelnytsky's uprising to illustrate the significance of the Zaporozhians, not their mercenary-ness. There was actually several companies of Zaporozhians in a a sort of pseudo mercenary system in the Polish army, the Registered Cossacks (they were paid wages monthly, which makes them mercenary like compared to the rest of the Polish army which was either nobility or feudal levies).

Most importantly, there is a perfect Zaporozhian model by Bakuel here. Note that the Zaporozhians, unlike most other Cossacks, fought mostly on foot.

When I was talking about Cossacks I was talking about Mercs in particular. So long as we keep the concepts of Mercs and regular people fighting for their own country, we are in agreement.

If there is a significant difference between the different Cossacks (i.e. foot vs horse), then we should include them both.

On a semi-related note, not all mercs would be "unique". We should probably have regular mercs with regular units/graphics (i.e. Archer, Horse Archer and so on).