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ExtraModMod

Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by Terkhen, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

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    ExtraModMod

    Project page: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod
    Wiki: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/wiki/Home
    Downloads: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/downloads
    Testing Guide: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/wiki/Testing


    ExtraModMod is a modification of the popular Fall from Heaven II mod for Civilization IV. ExtraModMod strives to improve the gameplay of the original mod and add new interesting options and features, while staying true to the original lore of the Erebus world.

    Download and installation
    The mod is available at https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/downloads. Unless you want to help with testing, using a stable, non beta version is recommended.

    To install this mod you need to paste the extracted contents of the zipped file over a clean installation of Fall from Heaven II 0.41o, or any older version of ExtraModMod. Don't forget to keep a backup if you plan to switch from ExtraModMod to vanilla Fall from Heaven 2, More Naval AI, or any other mod based in FFH2.

    Please note that ExtraModMod is not compatible with Blue Marble.

    If you get a "GFC Error: fails to initialize the primary control theme" error on startup, you should follow the instructions described in the following CivFanatics post: http://forums.civfanatics.com/threa...he-primary-control-theme.265892/#post-6564074

    Feedback
    Feedback about the mod is always welcome. Feel free to discuss any of the new features, suggestions or bugs in this thread or in the issue tracker. Bear in mind that right now we are only trying to balance barbarians, animals and lair exploration. If you are interested in providing better bug reports, then the Testing Guide is for you.

    Features
    ExtraModMod includes many new features; the full list of game features that are changed with regard to More Naval AI can be found in the emm_features.txt file found in the mod download. Many of these features come from other developers from the Civilization IV modding community, and the full credits for all of them can be found in the emm_credits.txt file included in the mod download. You can find a summary of some of the coolest features below.

    More Naval AI
    ExtraModMod is built using More Naval AI as a base, so it includes all of the great features it includes, such as a vastly improved AI, extra diplomacy options, many game tweaks and features, and an incredible number of fixes to bugs that were lurking in Fall from Heaven 2.

    Wilderness
    This component aims at making exploring the lands beyond the borders of civilization more fun and, to a smaller extent, strategically important. The strength of barbarians and animals now depends on the minimum distance to any player's starting point and on their technological advance.

    There is an increased variety of animals and capturing them provides unique rewards. Barbarian units now have increased variety, and each group of units will spawn in terrains appropriate for them. The units that are spawned by lairs have been reworked, and the results of exploring them are now based on the exploring unit's level and it can also be improved with certain promotions.

    You can find more information in the Wilderness page of the Civilopedia, in the Concepts section.

    Erebus in the Balance
    Erebus in the Balance is a Fall from Heaven 2 mod that strives for balance and polish. Their improvements and balance changes make the game a lot more interesting and fun, and many units, strategies or even civilizations are now viable and very rewarding to play.

    Technology propagation
    In ExtraModMod, the default technology trading is disabled by default, and replaced by a new system. Instead of trading technologies directly, if another team has researched a technology that you are missing, you will get a research bonus depending on how deep your relationship with that team is.

    Events Enhanced
    This component adds many new events, and it also adds images to all events.

    World changes
    ExtraModMod includes a set of MapScripts with extra features coming from MapScriptTools. the MapScripts with names ending with _mst will remember the options selected the last time they were played and they also include new settings and options. If you want your next game to be a real surprise, you should try RandomMap_mst.

    A new game setting, Flavour start, will make civilizations start on map locations according to their lore. ExtraModMod also features many new resources such as Amber, Penguins, Mushrooms or Shrimps, and also some new unique features.

    Leader changes
    ExtraModMod makes all scenario leaders available for normal games, along with modified traits that make their power level similar to those of default leaders. Many of these scenario leaders (and a few of the main ones) also use new traits that have been developed for this mod. If this is not your thing, you can always disable the new leaders. And if this is not creating enough variety for you, the random traits game option will grant all leaders random but usable traits. Or you could just play in a world where everybody is insane.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    Qgqqqqq and Sigwald like this.
  2. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  3. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

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  4. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    excellent work! a couple disagreements:

    1) I'd remove the golem slayer promo and blasting workshops at blasting powder, makes the luchuirp totally useless, why the nerf?

    2) the pyre zombie nerf is also way too big. some alternatives:

    a. just cap the explosion damage so it can't kill ( Eitb )
    b. change it to collateral instead ( WM )
    c. have the explosion damage scale with techs ( FF )
     
  5. lfgr

    lfgr Chieftain

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    Looks great! I'll probably play my next game with this mod.
    I agree with Gekko on the Luchuirp and Pyre Zombie critique.
    While I have little experience with luchuirp enemy, Fireballs on Blasting Powder sounds really late.
    I'm actually enjoying the Pyre Zombies that strong, it has a "have to watch out" effect when attacking, while the AI doesn't build that much of them that they easily wipe out an army. But that may be related to the fact that the AI isn't able to make full use of it. For a human player they are probably overpowered.
    By the way, mercurian parallel development sounds awesome (I'm reading the tutorial at the moment)
     
  6. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

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    Thanks! :)

    I suppose that both nerfs together are too much. I agree about removing the Golem Slayer promotion. About the blasting workshop; I find that requiring just Sorcery to give all new Golems the ability to cast one of the best spells is too easy. I guess that Blasting Powder is too late, but I still think that the tech requirement should be a bit higher than Sorcery. Any suggestions?

    The problem with pyre zombies is the power of huge stacks in hands of a experienced human player. Sadly, with my current solution you lose the possibility of doing a pyre zombie rush (and that is one of the strategies that Averax is supposed to be able to pull). I guess that ExtraModMod could cap the maximum explosion damage (as in solution a) ) and also reduce the explosion damage a bit and remove the Sorcery requirement.

    I'll create issues in the tracker for these problems. They will be changed in the next version.

    Mercurial is a quite powerful tool. I started using it a few years ago in other projects and I never looked back :)

    The ExtraModMod mercurial repository is not a great example of Mercurial as a collaboration tool because of how I chose to store the different ModComps. I (ab)use a Mercurial patch queue to store every component as a different diff file. This means that I can update a specific ModComp separately of all others easily because each one of the diff files stores only the changes related to that specific component. I can also export a component easily and apply it to vanilla MNAI in case I want to request its inclusion, and anyone can do the same to include the exported component in any other mod. This comes at a cost, though. The changes in the revision log are barely readable (they are stored as diff files of diff files) and if someone forks the repository to develop in parallel, any future merges will depend on things like the diff names, making true collaboration complicated.

    In the future, once most components are tested enough to consider them "definitive" (with regard to ExtraModMod itself) I plan to merge the ModComp patches into the main repository to solve these problems and let anyone interested to help with development in an easier way.

    If you are interested in learning more about Mercurial, I suggest this link: http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/
     
  7. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    blasting workshops are fine the way they are, they provide an opportunity window similar to firebows. golems are slow, luchuirp really don't need to be nerfed any. similarly make sure you don't nerf Sheaim too much ;)
     
  8. lfgr

    lfgr Chieftain

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    How about just one tech level higher (Arcane Lore)?

    Yeah, I noticed this query thing wasn't meant to be used that way when I tried to remove a modcomp from the build :) (Finally got it)
    Thanks, I already stumbled over it while trying Mercurial out.
     
  9. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

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  10. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Chieftain

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    Arcane lore is easily enough, golems are pretty weak already, and sorcery doesn't lie in the weapons line the luchuirp should be following.
    What's mercurial?
     
  11. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

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    for blasting workshop : I would propose a dual tech instead of going for arcane lore (which is expensive and might be too much of a nerf IMO)

    like : sorcery, AND elementalism (whioch would be logical), and ... a more mundane tech :

    engineering or smelting or iron working to show that the artisan need technics to insert rune-like sorcery on golems..
    or (my prefered) bowyers (it might seems illogical, but it is not !! bowyers is about advanced ranged combat, and fireballing golem IS advanced ranged combat for luirchips...
    AND IIRC bowyers is most un-usefull for luirchips... and this would render it useful.)

    ... my 0.2
     
  12. Doug Piranha

    Doug Piranha Chieftain

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    Why the hatred for the Luchuirp? Sorcery is already hard enough to get, and they still need fire mana and a building before they can start cranking out slow, unhasteable, unpromotable fireball golems.

    Likewise, Sheaim are not currently overpowered and don't need to be hammered by the nerf bat. Half of the fun of FfH is that all civs have access to some very powerful strategy.
     
  13. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    In my mod, Sheaim Pyre Zombies, Destroy Undead, Divine Retribution, Raging Seas ... all have a cap of 99% damage.

    Luchuirp recieve no nerf.


    To make raging seas more powerful, I have it destroy ALL rival coastal improvements (instead of just a few). That way all damage is temporary unless there is an army to take advantage of the situation (yet still powerful during the interim).
     
  14. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    oh noes, Tas has been possesed by MC! :p

    I'd make it 90 or 95 though, 99 upsets ocd people like me :lol:
     
  15. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

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    [QUOTE='[to_xp]99 upsets ocd people like me[/QUOTE]

    Why? :p

    But yea, 90 or 95 is fine. Just want to hear your reasoning.
     
  16. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Chieftain

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    Yeah id do 95, but don't understand why raging seas needs such a boost (?) that's always been my least fu. part of it.
    Agree with Doug.
     
  17. Terkhen

    Terkhen Chieftain

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    I don't make balance changes out of hate, although they may be wrong :D

    Seriously though; if the consensus is that the Luchuirp need no nerf, I'll remove the blasting workshop change too. I still feel that conquest games as Luchuirp turn into a (slow) cakewalk once that you get fireball iron golems and some mages to keep them company.

    There is an additional ExtraModMod change that affect this issue, and that IMO have not been considered in this discussion. Arcane Garrym makes the mage/golem combo more interesting, and he would be aiming for Arcane Lore anyways.

    Mercurial is the revision control tool in which ExtraModMod sources is stored.

    A cap for those kind of spells makes sense to me (I'm not sure about the world spells, though).

    Since it seems that balance issues are the predominant topic right now, I would also like to know your opinion about the minor leaders' traits. I have the feeling that some of them may be severely under/overpowered :)
     
  18. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Chieftain

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    Erm, list please.
    if anything the luchuirp need a boost (particularly after tholal better the WS .
    :lol: In my experience ANY human army becomes a catwalk once it gets going, no more so for the. luchuirp then the amurites, vampires or infernal.
    Speaking of which I made a balance suggestion fir the infernal (at RB) a while ago - basically the idea is that the amount of manes/ settlers hyborem starts with scale with the average size of civilizations.
    So if he's not summoned until everyone's got 100 pop, he'd get an extra ~40 manes +maybe 5settlers.
    Is this mostly based on MNAI?
    If so, the dovellio leaders need a boost and flauros should be org/cre. Order/CoE need a boost and nox nocitis a nerf. Calabim also need a nerf as does keelyn.
     
  19. Doug Piranha

    Doug Piranha Chieftain

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    Sorry, that wasn't aimed at you in particular. It seemed as though everyone was piling on to the poor old Luchuirp.

    As Qgqqqqq said, you could say the same thing about Keelyn with puppet spam, Calabim with a bunch of Vampires, Elves with cottages and Ancient Forests everywhere, anyone with Sacrifice the Weak, Ritualists, and Beasts of Agares, etc. The AI just can't stand up to the late game toys, whatever flavor of toys you prefer.
     
  20. Qgqqqqq

    Qgqqqqq Chieftain

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    What are the spells/effects of these shepherds (I'm a vannila guy;))?
    What's the savage civ trait?

    Can you go through and explain some of these changes (Lucian, extra resources, "balance adjustments" etc.)?
    It's hard to know why/what has been done, (a change log would be awesome ;)).
     

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