FA: War with Russia.

[Nobody]

During the last turn-chat, Russian Military forces moved surrounded the city of TBD (Kyoto). Japantican diplomats worked around the clock to find a diplomatic way to resolve the crisis. We decided to appease the Russians by handing over the city of TBD, and by creating a Atarashika Free Movement Association. Unfortunately these diplomatic endeavours failed and the Russian Military launched a “unprovoked attack on our Expeditionary Force near Stutgart.” We people of Japantica, are peace loving, we didn’t want war, and now it has been thrust upon us. Our first reaction will be to strike back it is our natural reflex, but we must remain calm and think it though. Our first thoughts must be to the soldiers and settlers who are currently still in Atarashika. We have to protect them. Then we need to work out how we are going to react.

There are two ways to react, the first being send over a large invasion force and conquer Russia. Our military is stronger than Russia but we have to travel over a large ocean to get to them. Our navy is also strong and should be able to defeat the Russians. But it might need some in ships if we intend to land a large invasion force in Russia. And although our Army is strong it will be at a disadvantage fighting on the Russian homeland. It will take reinforcements along time to get there. Also if we fail to get MPP’s with America, China and Aztecs we might end up fighting the entire continent.

The second option is to send out our navy and kill any Russians trying to get to us, but other than naval fighting wait them out. This might save us from a world war.

If we decide to invade them, we will need allies. To do this I say we sign a MPP with China, France, America and the Aztecs. Then we should settle a city in the north and let Russia attack.

I am in favour of a invasion, sure it will be bloody but they attacked us, and we cant let them get away with it. If we do they don’t just take our city and thousands of gold, they also take away our title of Superpower. And if we don’t sign MPP’s now they might get the rest of the world on to us.

Please discuss. I will poll later, and could someone find out how much the MPPs (and RoPs) will cost as my computers playing up and the civ3 wont open. Thanks

 

[WeaponX]

I think we could when a head on war but we must remain cautious. We should keep a good portion of the navy blocking oncoming attacks from the Russians whilst we are attacking their mainland. We should isolate their resources and bombard cities to ensure victory. Also, make sure we have as many allies as we can. We want to keep our enemies the Russians be the only enemies we have....for now. Well thats my opinion.

 

[Crimso]

A MPP and RoP with France will cost 100 gold.
A MPP with China will cost 191 gold (RoP was signed last TC).
A MPP with Aztecs will cost nothing (RoP was signed last TC).
A MPP with America will cost nothing (RoP was signed last TC).

As you mentioned recently, Nobidz, the price of MPPs rises each time a new one is signed (right?), but these deals are so cheap I don't think it would matter.

 

[WeaponX]

A MPP and RoP with France will cost 100 gold.
A MPP with China will cost 191 gold (RoP was signed last TC).
A MPP with Aztecs will cost nothing (RoP was signed last TC).
A MPP with America will cost nothing (RoP was signed last TC).

MPP's are the way to go in this situation.

 

[Chieftess]

Remember that MPP deals, like trade deals, WILL CHANGE when you do them. Reason? The AI will see you as being stronger than you really are. (since there's 2 civs already against 1 potential opponent).

What we need to do is leave all but the settler on the other continent (found a city so that they don't get the slaves). Name the city, "Sacrifice to the RNG".

 

[Ginger_Ale]

NO MPPS!

Unless our nation, "are peace loving, we didn’t want war" wants war, and a world war I might add, don't sign them.

Wait out the turns of war. No need to do anything. We will have war happiness, so we'll be fine. If Russians land troops on our soil, kill them, but otherwise, no need to kill their navy or whatever. It was our fault for the war, not theirs.

 

[blackheart]

Ok first off, the MPPs won't do anything unless the Russians attack us in our territory, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Secondly, I'm going to order the settler back home ASAP, there is already a transport offshore waiting for it.

 

[Crimso]

The MPPs are useless, in fact harmful, if we attack Russia on their soil before they attack us on our's. Russia's allies (the Americans and the Aztecs) will be forced to ally against us; if we are going for a Diplomatic victory, 7 of the 9 nations voting (assuming they all survive until then) would have been at war with us at some time in this situation. Of the other two countries, China will be running against us in the election...

We have an opprotunity to sign the MPPs and have the Russians attack us on our soil: the settling party was not harmed at all by the single knight attack; in fact, the valiant musketman was promoted to elite after the cannon shaved of a hit point. We could settle the city, and the Russians would probably attack it. There are problems with this plan though. Can we settle a city as bait? To ensure its survival we could rush a harbour and barracks, and upgrade the musket, and rush other defensive troops there, but we only have so much money. The only other way to 'flip' the MPPs is to wait for Russia to send over an invasion force to our lands: what are the chances they'll put in the effort?; would you be willing to waste our western ironclad fleet if they did?

Signing MPPs with all four countries runs other risks. There is a terrible chance that China could explode, and conquer a lot of Russia before we get there. On the other hand, it could be Russia who will go berserk. As Chieftess pointed out before, they want their Golden Age, and the time of Cossacks is running out.

Many are calling for an invasion, some for just India, some for Russia, and some for both. I hope they keep these things in mind.

 

[WeaponX]

Ok first off, the MPPs won't do anything unless the Russians attack us in our territory, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Ok you all have convinced me about the MPP's but what are our other choices. We could win it alone we just should make sure nobody else turns against us (beside America and Aztec) We don't want to make this more diffucult than nessecary

 

[Nobody]

Blackheart, we should settle that settler. Other wise when we attack russia, we will be at war with america and aztecs. Signing a MPP and founding that settler is the only way.

 

[Provolution]

I agree with Nobody here. This is the wall.

 

[blackheart]

Blackheart, we should settle that settler. Other wise when we attack russia, we will be at war with america and aztecs. Signing a MPP and founding that settler is the only way.

Or the other way is to let Russia come to us. I'm sure us settling there wouldn't upset China or America . It's going to be a worthless city if we settle.

 

[Provolution]

they will surely raze it, better to activate the MPP asap, and keep city at 1 Pop for autoraze. consider it a very very small prive for getting Russia into a multifront war much much earlier. It is pretty dumb to attack them midsea.

 

[WeaponX]

they will surely raze it, better to activate the MPP asap, and keep city at 1 Pop for autoraze. consider it a very very small prive for getting Russia into a multifront war much much earlier.

Well this plan will make victory easier and take one nation off our backs easier when we have some support.

 

[blackheart]

they will surely raze it, better to activate the MPP asap, and keep city at 1 Pop for autoraze. consider it a very very small prive for getting Russia into a multifront war much much earlier. It is pretty dumb to attack them midsea.

I'm going to stick by my morals and integrity here. I'm not going to sacrifice citizens and send them to the chopping blocks just because no other options are being considered. I thought MSAV was so confident they could win this war easily?

What's so dumb about attacking them in the ocean? Our navy is the dominating force.

 

[Crimso]

I am actually with Ginger Ale on the issue. But I realize that we are in the vast minority, so I will say this: do not bring China into the war. They will attack Russia with a large force, that is certain. How much will they take in the end? I'm guessing a lot. We don't know what stopped them last time from taking over more of Atarashika, but we can't hope for that luck again.

Oh, and if you were opposed to MPPs in the last poll, because you worried the AI would bring us into unwanted wars immediatley after the pen has left the paper, can you try to uphold the same standards for ourselves?

 

[Ashburnham]

I'm going to stick by my morals and integrity here. I'm not going to sacrifice citizens and send them to the chopping blocks just because no other options are being considered. I thought MSAV was so confident they could win this war easily?

What's so dumb about attacking them in the ocean? Our navy is the dominating force.

I quite agree. This type of Machiavellian, cynical thinking is disgraceful in an elected official, and something I certainly hope is a one-time occurence. Let's get the settler back to Kyouri and worry about Russia from the seas.

 

[Octavian X]

An offensive war against Russia is simply unneccesary. Any gains of Russian territory will be hopelessly corrupt (unless a doctrine exists calling for the relocation of one of the palaces), and will be nearly impossible to defend effectivly against Russia, or against any other of the hostile powers on that continent. We would also be in a weak position should France, Zululand, or Babylon decide to attack, either on Catherine's side, or on their own. In addition to all this, war weariness will take it's toll on our pocketbook when our already expensive military becomes larger for this fight.

As much as I would love to poop on Russia, a defensive war is the best in this situation.

 

[WeaponX]

An offensive war against Russia is simply unneccesary. Any gains of Russian territory will be hopelessly corrupt (unless a doctrine exists calling for the relocation of one of the palaces), and will be nearly impossible to defend effectivly against Russia, or against any other of the hostile powers on that continent. We would also be in a weak position should France, Zululand, or Babylon decide to attack, either on Catherine's side, or on their own. In addition to all this, war weariness will take it's toll on our pocketbook when our already expensive military becomes larger for this fight.

As much as I would love to poop on Russia, a defensive war is the best in this situation.

I am convinced, I am with this guy.

 

[Provolution]

Well, you guys wanted no doctrine for Atarashika, no real foreign policy was crafted. Everything was confusion, profits, no real friends, no bases, only indefensible cities, no long term strategy for the continent. Even doctrines was banned.
Now, suddenly, I see some half sarcastic calls for doctrines, more to insult the MSAV minister, which is fair enough for those with that priority. However, I made a promise that I would let loose the dogs of war if you guys provided me a war, and no individual citizens can overrule military instructions. To those who are pursuing me in other threads and debates to wear me down, and to keep me in check on every account, fair enough, I see the bloc and individual members clearly.

However, you collectively failed, and we are to have a war. I am not rerunning next term, for good reasons, and I can assure you I will break Russias will to fight with brute force. If we are going to keep the cities we take or not, is not a MSAV question, I am only there to win the war. However, you have some non-military ways to influence the running of the war. War plans will be dictated by MPPs, ROPs, existing trade agreements and so on. If you try to impose lousy military strategy, like waiting for their fleet, I will not apply it. Unless FA gives me a clear mandate to draft military doctrines for Atarashika, I will fight wars as I see fit. There is no need for gold upgrades, some governors refuse to cooperate, we will get better units in 10-15 turns, and in general we want a short war. I can keep it less than 20 turns.

Hairando has already denied rushing a Galleon, I will see if Kitakinu and Zarnia will do the same.

On the large, I see people more focussed in throwing problems into each others way rather than solving problems, fixing problems and planning ahead. Quarrelsome types would rather write 5 pages flaming and haranguing a proposal/plan or doctrine, simply to satisfy their correctional instincts and lust for a bitter argument. I see more energy being spent on bringing down initiatives than atually adding to the game, hence the participation is falling down. Now that the doves are in power, they cannot even
unite on a long term plan for actually concluding the game. We talked about a Diplowin and a Histo win. Histo win would take a year or so at this pace. A Diplowin is hard to get, as the same doves call for more profits and less relationships, and frankly only cares about an issue, when there is someone to peg for the blame.

It is sympthomathic that we have this discourse now, so one sided it can be, as the moderate hawk side (for a strongarmed diplowin) has been fatigued by all this whimpering and personal-oriented harangue.

I can assure you the Russians will suffer, hard, next 1495-1550 and then on, and you are free to not vote for me next term, since I am not running. I take this war, and leave New Years Eve. You can even call this a little Tet Offensive.

So please refrain from personal attacks from now on, and stick to the issue, or I will refer you for trolling , flaming etc.