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Facebook Planning to Bring Free Internet to Africa: Good or Bad?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Commodore, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Nope, I wouldn't actually advocate murdering you. It would be a waste of time and I'd rather do something more productive.
     
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Where do you get those figures?

    This is as much 'on topic' as the following:

    This not even remotely on topic. Try again.

    To these people - as to most - it matters naught. So why bring this up again? Stick with screwdrivers. Obviously all Africans are in need of those, aren't they...

    No taxpayers pay for internet.

    As I suspected, the number of Africans you actually know is zero. You are arguing (if we can call it that) from hypothethicals.
     
  3. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Perhaps you should try reading the articles already posted in this thread along with visiting "internet.org" yourself, instead of apparently basing your opinions on preconceived notions of what must be occurring. It is all there. You just have to read it if you are actually interested in knowing the facts surrounding this matter.

    Thinking critically is usually a choice that is made after careful study, not something that comes naturally to many people.

    So now you are judging my own posts, which are clearly "on topic", on those made by someone else? :lol:
     
  4. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Well, if you insist on staying off topic:

    Actually, no. Critical thinking is something one develops from critical reading. The latter, hopefully, one learns in school. The first is something one has to do oneself.

    You didn't answer my question, but evaded it. Not really a sign of critical thinking. I suspected the figure of 2/3 of the world being unconnected to be unsubstantiated. Apparently this is the case, seeing as there are no actual figures to base such a conclusion on.

    You haven't shown how your bickering with other posters would be "on topic". But feel free to try. Secondly, I didn't judge anything. I offered a comparison. Critical readers can decide for themselves how similar the compared posts are. They don't need anyone to judge for them.

    In short, your response doesn't show much of critical thinking, but does have certain characteristics of what is generally know as a personal comment. The two are not the same.
     
  5. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Nope. I pointed out exactly where you could find out that information. Try it. Type "internet.org" into your browser and see for yourself.

    :popcorn:

    Now, of course you can claim that Facebook is just making it up. But you obviously can't state it is "off topic". :lol:

    If your school system didn't teach you to think critically, that certainly helps explain that part of the issue.

    I generally try to find out some basic facts before forming an opinion about a topic I know nothing about, such as this one. YMMV.

    So irony and hypocrisy also apparently mean nothing at all to you as well? Gee, what a surprise.

    But I'll wait. Go back and see who actually has been spamming this thread with completely irrelevant comments about how some posts are "off topic", merely because they disagree with your own personal opnions.

    "In short", I didn't claim or even insinuate my comment was based on critical thinking instead of what is blatantly obvious from your own posts!
     
  6. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    I'm not sure what they are planning to do on the subscriber-side of providing access but I assume they are going to be giving out modems. On the provider side, they are leasing capacity on pre-existing broadband satellites to provide coverage. Note that this capacity is already there but is too expensive for most people to afford.

    OneWeb and SpaceX on the other hand are building entirely new constellations of satellites to provide internet access at higher speed than what the FB effort can provide and are also selling subscriptions so there is no need to subsidize the effort with walled gardens like internet.org.
     
  7. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    People who have studied international aid (as opposed to pseudo-Randroids who can only make snarky remarks about everything not concerning themselves) would raise the issue of sustainability. This has been the biggest issue plaguing this form of aid.

    IIRC, Microsoft has tried giving free computers to improve schools in Africa, but because it was not accompanied by measures to ensure the sustainability of the effort and the benefits that it brings, it didn't do anything. Most of the computers remained sealed and unused, because there was simply not enough expertise on the ground to (confidently) operate and maintain something so expensive.
     
  8. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    Or there wasn't an electrical grid reliable enough to warrant unpacking them. (not disagreeing with; just adding to the above sentiment)
     
  9. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    http://spacenews.com/facebook-eutelsat-to-pay-spacecom-95m-for-ka-band-lease/
    Some things worth noting -

    *The satellite to provide FB internet hasn't been launched yet but was already going to be launched. So it's kinda-sorta 'pre-existing' in the sense that FB isn't launching a dedicated satellite for the service, they are just leasing capacity on one that was already going to be put up.

    *The article mentions 3 'gateways' which seems to indicate that the way they are going to set this up is instead of selling individual modems to customers, they are going to have people connect to backhaul stations that connect to the satellites. Which means they are probably going to depend on pre-existing 4G mobile networks to deploy the FB internet to end-users.

    *The total capacity of the satellite is 18 gigabits/second sounds like a lot, but it will be spread out among all users of the satellite. Plus, the article isn't clear if FB is leasing all of that capacity or just a subset of it.

    *The launch is being partially financed by the Import/Export bank which has been essentially de-authorized by the Republicans in Congress. I have read elsewhere that Im/Ex can continue servicing loans that were made prior to the de-authorization but the situation is very tricky and may cause problems.

    *The launch is on a full-thrust Falcon 9 which hasn't yet flown and is dependent on SpaceX successfully returning to flight and also proving the new rocket (which may happen together in the same launch if they stick to their plan to debut the full-thrust on their return-to-flight mission). So there's another source of potential scheduling conflict.

    *There are no real details in the article on how FB plans on getting internet in the hands of end-users. My comment above on using 4G networks is pure speculation.
     
  10. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

    So its offtopic for me to answer your direct question of trying to relate this thread to 'But how many Africans do you know???'.

    While my point being that such an ignorant rebuttal is invalid to me realizing that nothing actually comes for free, and simply throwing free things at Africa never does anything to help improve conditions there.

    Taxpayers are going to be paying for the finding of free services. Taxpayers don't pay for internet usually because each person pays for their own. But when you want to provide a free service to an entire continent, the only way for that to be funded is by tax.

    Likewise with free healthcare. In countries like the USA where all healthcare is private, people pay and fund for their own medical plans. In the UK, heathcare is 'free' ... But paid for from every working persons taxes.

    You cannot create and maintain a free service without the money to pay for it coming from somewhere, surely you cant be so naive to not understand this.
     
  11. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    Throwing free HIV/AIDS medicine and condoms at Africa certainly helped the situation there. So there's that.
     
  12. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Except it didn't, because the people still didn't learn what HIV was and how the contraceptives helped to prevent it.

    Give a man a condom, and he'll have safer sex for a day. Teach a man about safer sex / STDs, and he'll use condoms for a lifetime.
     
  13. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    You mean the condoms GWB and Congress drastically reduced because they wanted to preach abstinence only to the dying victims, while putting other silly Christian morality strings on their incredibly meager budget?

    Bush accused of Aids damage to Africa

     
  14. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus Moderator

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    Not if he can't afford them, or can't find them, or cares about them enough to use them when they're lying around at home but not enough to go and buy them. At any rate, I don't think anyone is talking about dropping condoms from an aircraft - people do go around explaining what they are and why they are important.
     
  15. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    So the STD rates in Africa have significantly decreased then? No, not really. It barely made any difference.
     
  16. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    HIV rates have risen but that's as much an effect of people with AIDS living longer thanks to the free drugs as it does to any increase in transmission rate.

    You can argue about the utility of giving condoms all you want but I'm not sure how giving HIV/AIDS medication to relieve suffering is every bad.
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Actually, in growth conditions, a problem delayed is a profit.

    If a person is going to get sick and stop producing, then we look at what he produced before he got sick.

    So say, without condoms he gets sick one week earlier than he would have. We then look at that week's output and realized it would then be compounded at about 2-7% for some period of time (since his economic output would have had a local multiplier).

    The $1 condom would have created more than a week's wages of wealth. Wealth that improved the community (and even helped the guy who later gets HIV, if he was able to generate any savings or investment during that week).

    A local infusion of assets can create a demand-side hit to the economy, and even longterm dependence. But it also creates a resource that can then be utilized in creating a supply-side benefit to the economy.

    More free assets is a good thing. But yeah, watch out for the demand-side hit. Rushing grain into a famine region drops the price of grain in its penumbra, and that will hurt the investments of those who we want producing grain in the longrun.

    Give-Directly (who gave just straight money, which helps the demand-side of the equation as well as providing 'free' assets to a community) found a nearly 14% return on the money given (in the form of long-term benefits).
     
  18. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    It is when you only hand it out with such nonsensical far-right religious-based stipulations while intentionally restricting their access to condoms.

    They might as well say they are willing to try to save what they consider to be good right-wing Christians who believe in the very same morals as they do. But the rest can go right ahead and die.
     
  19. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    Are you trying to say that only the US gave condoms and HIV medicines out for free to Africa? You keep coming back to that for some reason even though you're the only one who brought it up and continue harping on it like it disproves the entire notion of aid.
     
  20. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Nope. Other European countries tried to make up for this embarrassing nonsense. Yet many Africans still contracted AIDs becaose the US refused to give them free condoms with no stipulations whatsoever, as they had during the Chinton administration.

    But go right ahead and apparently try to pretend that GWB and the rest of the hypocritical Republicans were such great humanitarians when the record obviously speaks for itself. $15B spread out over so many years is a joke, especially when it comes with a bunch of pretentious far-right Christian stipulations attached to it.
     

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