Faction design: Estalia, Tilea, Araby, Cathay, Nippon, UnderEmpire

[Psychic_Llamas]

PERFECT FOR A SKYRE SKAVEN LEADERHEAD OMFG!

genius epic find orlanth... are there any more like that???

 

[Arexack_heretic]

yes it is. [I used it for a button too.] the artist is Ed Cox IIRC.

I don't know about warrens. or how HQs are now implemented.

limiting skaven to a few megapolises sounds allright (safety in numbers), maybe the number of cities can be modified by the number of clan HQs...

...how about skavenMaxCities is a number based on mapsize, while a city containing a clan HQ is free (or raises skavenMaxCities by one).
...HQs could be created by 'chieftain' units in owned towns.
...these chieftains (national unit?) could require several promotions to gain the FoundClanHQ ability.
...I like the idea of supporting units, not just weapon teams, cencers and assasins, but also heroes.
...maybe promoted from tier1 units...or granted by quest events.
(capture the [human] town of [name] in 15 turns using subterfuge: grants a free Eshin Warlord)

Do skaven still have the option of creating undercities in enemy towns?


I don't think I like the way light magic is in danger of getting corrupted now.
Skaven built a huge machine once to harness the huge amounts of lightmagic flowing under the mountains, however it did not work and the resulting mega-earthquake almost wiped them and the dwarves out.
Incidentally this did create massive fissures under all the mountain ranges, which the ratmen were quick to exploit. Also skaven became united under the counsil of 13.
I feel skaven magic is confined to warp magic, darkmagic, some aspects of all the gods of corruption are possible, but foremost I feel THR is the embodiment of Strife and Avarice.
For mechanics warpmagic and indeed maybe a random tier1 magic could be possible. (maybe a list can be made of appropriate magics)
Perhaps a ritual-upgrade inside a city with a warpforge(or similar building) can provide a way to attempt the creation of a masterwork apparatus that grants the skaven access to the magick.....chance== #warptokens^2*10%: failure == destruction

 

[Ahriman]

I don't know about warrens. or how HQs are now implemented.

Can you please read the Skaven section of the first post in this thread?
Thats the current design we're talking about.

..how about skavenMaxCities is a number based on mapsize, while a city containing a clan HQ is free (or raises skavenMaxCities by one)

No, that would make the HQs too important, and the faction too strong.
Remember, the sprawling trait allows each city to work a 3rd ring of tiles, so these cities are huge. The sprawling trait would be implemented as in FFH Kuriotates.

...HQs could be created by 'chieftain' units in owned towns.
...these chieftains (national unit?) could require several promotions to gain the FoundClanHQ ability.

I think its easier to make the HQs mututally exclusive national wonders - that way the AI will build them.

Do skaven still have the option of creating undercities in enemy towns?

What exactly would an undercity do?
Maybe this could be a corporation, that gives gold to the Skaven player while sucking it out of the city in question?

 

[Arexack_heretic]

something like that.

It was supposed to fill up a district slot in the city, and give the skaven player infiltration options inside that city:
-airlift spies to city (tunnels)
-bribe officials
-poison wells
-attack from below: airlift troops to sige city, negate city walls
-siphon off city production.
-create unhealth.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Screaming bell is a siegeweapon imo.
replacement for catapult, but has national unit limit.

can be tolled to enchant skaven (in 1 range? frenzy.)
can be used against cities to bombard defences and maybe unfortify units as their ears bleed.
can crack (detonate!) if tolled too often.

 

[Ahriman]

Screaming bell is a siegeweapon imo.
replacement for catapult, but has national unit limit.
can be tolled to enchant skaven (in 1 range? frenzy.)
can be used against cities to bombard defences and maybe unfortify units as their ears bleed.
can crack (detonate!) if tolled too often.

Doesn't really sound like much of a catapult replacement - I like the Warpfire thrower better as a catapult replacement.
Though I worry a little about the catapult unit having a national wonder build requirement - what if the AI doesn't build that HQ early on?
Do I have the right units/flavorful bonuses for the various Hqs?

I think a critical failure bell cracking is likely to be a Not Fun feature.

Maybe the bell should be strength 5 siege unit that cannot attack, that can bombard city walls slightly (sonic weakening), and has a couple of minor spells.
Frenzied Peal: adds the FrenziedSkaven promotion to all units in the stack.
FrenziedSkaven promotion wears off at end of turn with 100% chance, gives +20% attack strength -20% withdraw chance.
Terrifying peal: adds afraid promotion to all enemy units in 1 adjacent stack. Afraid promotion wears off at end of turn with 100% chance, gives -10% strength unless the unit is immune to fear.

1 moves, National UU (limit 3). Requires machinery tech, requires magic of the horned rat tech.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

hmm.
okay, ballista replacement then.
critical failure modes is what skaven tecnolodjie is all about IMHO.
almost every skaven weapon or magic has an option to use it harder and harder untill it explodes in your face.

besides losing is fun. ;p

 

[Ahriman]

Skaven won't get ballistae. Each race gets catapults and *either* ballistae OR cannons.

critical failure modes is what skaven tecnolodjie is all about IMHO.
almost every skaven weapon or magic has an option to use it harder and harder untill it explodes in your face.

Fair enough, maybe something like this can be implemented. This does seem to be a flavor feature of orcs and skaven.
Losing a siege unit is probably fine. Its losing a high-level heavily promoted unit that is really Not Fun.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Wasn't suggesting giving them ballistae.

Hmm yes. failuremode.
"reload game when unit goes boom" syndrome should be avoided at all cost.
exploding skaven units could be more the norm than the exception...at least for warpflamers.
other units in same tile (or next to) could be hit with a damaging yet not 100%lethal blast.

The warpcannon takes the cannon slot...
Is it not too easy to build? should require skryre hq.

where does this leave the rattlinggun? a warpstone-free skaven cannon?

doombell is national unit.
can grey seers be made to 'ride' them?
(or sacrifice the seer and have the bell gain his magics).

or jezzails... miniature cannons actually, does alot of damage with first volley, but are slow to reload. can use poisoned (warpstone) bullets.

poisonwind globadiers? I would not make these into a selfcontained unit....but
unit support, antisiege. can be promotion available to rank&file units only in skryreHQ. unit gains area-effect spell "poisoncloud". can scatter, disperses after 1-2 turns.
....I have a suspicion I had this argument before...
I see they lose all city defence boni. this is odd: it is still easier to throw downhill than otherwise.

gameplay mechanisms for plague cencerbearers (and goblin fanatics) ?
as a hidden unit that (somehow) intercepts the first attack the unit (stack) suffers during an enemy turn?
High attack strength, immunity from first strikes. immune to poison. only 1-3 models.
Unit dies after combat has been resolved.

assasins. an unit-ability to first strike or a +50% vs heroes? Or a seperate hidden unit that can perform assasination spy actions versus fortified units and cities?

I see that steampower is ruled out.
I had assumed the doomwheel was the steam-tank equivalent... it however runs on warplightning and rats ... obviously.

partizan unit: rat swarm?

Free slaves.
(I read the burrows text wrongly, at first thought it gave a free unit every unit built)
maybe can be conscripted by warlords from warren cities, halving their population and adding a big stack of upkeep-free slave units. who do not add to war-weariness

black skaven: axemen elite melee troops. (Less armoured then stormvermin.)
kinda like black orcs.
stormvermin could be an upgrade possibility of blackskaven at level 5 or so, maybe even national unit (max10).

Don't understand the pestilens unit(s)...are you suggesting only a special priest-type unit?
Half the skaven armies are made up of plaguemonks in the 'current time' warhammer world remember. There really should be a deseased, but tough plaguemonk unit available only at pestilensHQ in lieu of clanrat units.

----

HQs I like 'em. Skaven are clannish and jealous.
So I'd rather have clanspecific units require to be built only at their respective HQ-cities.
(clanrat, slaves, stormvermin, etc are generic and get boni from barracks.)
Seers and such to only be built at the ruined temple of the Horned Rat (ie the Capital).
I'd also like clan Pestilens to allow only pestilens units to be built (ie disallow generic units).

---
plaguemonks :
melee unit.
tougher than clanrats.
immune to fear, deseased, subject to frenzy/maddness.
costs more then clanrats.
cannot have supporting skryre units.
cannot have hidden assasin units.
can include plague cencer bearers.
can carry a oneshot warpscroll at extra cost.
can push a doombell, like any other unit.
does not increase happyness in cities other than P-HQ.

Plague priests are prophets of the Horned One's Corruption as such they have access to some magics.
(The Liber Bubonicus might be a good source, see:: "carried items" etc)

The Plague Legion is in essence a whole seperate civ of skaven, they found their way back home to the Old World and set out to conquer skavenblight, this ultimately failed, but they remain the single most powerfull faction.
Unfortunately for us, the plagued ones lack the variety to be a seperate civ.


wheeee! lots of ideas and most of them superfluous.

 

[orlanth]

PERFECT FOR A SKYRE SKAVEN LEADERHEAD OMFG!
genius epic find orlanth... are there any more like that???

thanks lol - I flipped through an art site a few weeks back and saved any pics potentially WH-appropriate, though there weren't other skaven I'll attach the zip and maybe some of them could work for buttons or other misc art.

I like the ideas re the Screaming Bell etc. Maybe Jezzails could get +1 poison and extra firststrike chance with less base strength to represent the strong 1st volley with terrible reload. I like having the chance for things to blow up/go horribly wrong but yes if you're like me save/reload is just too easy Perhaps an experimentation event where the effects aren't apparent for a good ~40 turns or so.. defintely infuriating, possibly fun?

What are yalls ideas re the Warpstone resource? Skaven are meant to be constantly searching for more but with the Civ4 system once they get access to one source they're pretty much set (especially easy if the Flavor Start mapscript codes them to start near to it). Perhaps a special event causing warpstone sources to dry up and appear (maybe it could be possible to make each Warpstone Reactor etc require an additional source of WS? would be hard to do using python but I'm sure theres a way.)

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Yeah.

IIRC all resources dry up eventually, the frequency is somewhere in the XML.
So I suggest a very high rate of warpstone use-uppage, with the event
"Morslieb meteor shower"
to sow new sources.
There are even skaven rituals to call down warpstone meteors from the black moon.
Such a ritual (a oneshot wonder) calls down a meteor near the city to perform the ritual.
If the volcano art from FfH or the craters from smac (or was it song of the moon?) can be copied, we got the grafics to crash one and rip up the countryside.

The order-flavour equivalent event could be a meteoric iron meteor. (if needed)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

on the note of skaven HQs, i think it would be good, (and proabbly fairly easy to do if i figure it out,possibly through events) to give the skaven player an option to make a city (not outpost) into a HQ of your choice. ie:

You have founded a new city, please choose a Clan to lead it:

-Skyre
-Eschin
-Pestilens
-The-other-one-that-i-always-forget

when a clan is chosen an automatic wonder is built in that city ie 'Skyre HQ', each HQ would have different unit bonuses and attributes (NOTE: NOT unit requirements, just boosts)

too many randomly exploding skaven should be avoided (too annoying for the player). perhaps if they are used like the Pyre Zombies in FfH (explode in combat) that would be more appropriate and ammusing.

 

[Ahriman]

"reload game when unit goes boom" syndrome should be avoided at all cost.

Precisely.

The warpcannon takes the cannon slot...
Is it not too easy to build? should require skryre hq.

We're trying to remove many of the building requirements. I don't think we should have more than one limited unit per hq.
Are warpcannons really a particularly clan Skyre thing? I guess we could make the warpcannon their unique unit instead of the warpfire thrower.

Remember that the AI might not build all the HQs - and on smaller maps, you *can't* build all the hqs because you can't get 4 cities.

where does this leave the rattlinggun? a warpstone-free skaven cannon?

The rattlinggun seemed unnecessary - its role is basically that of the warplightning cannon and the jezzails. So I left it out.

or jezzails... miniature cannons actually, does alot of damage with first volley, but are slow to reload. can use poisoned (warpstone) bullets.

More an oversized musket than a minature cannon - I think they fit fine in the handgunner slot (remember that only a few factions get anything in this slot, most can't research rifling).

poisonwind globadiers? I would not make these into a selfcontained unit....but
unit support, antisiege. can be promotion available to rank&file units only in skryreHQ. unit gains area-effect spell "poisoncloud". can scatter, disperses after 1-2 turns.
....I have a suspicion I had this argument before...
I see they lose all city defence boni. this is odd: it is still easier to throw downhill than otherwise.

Really? These seem to be a separate unit in the Skaven things I've seen, including the latest catalogs.
They lose the city defense bonus because they basically get much higher base strength to anything not resistant/immune to death or poison. With the city defense bonus they'd be too strong. Also arguably their limited range is such that they don't gain as much from city defense as to normal archers.
I think they make sense as just a high strength unit, that are vulnerable to death/poison resistance.

gameplay mechanisms for plague cencerbearers (and goblin fanatics) ?
as a hidden unit that (somehow) intercepts the first attack the unit (stack) suffers during an enemy turn?
High attack strength, immunity from first strikes. immune to poison. only 1-3 models.
Unit dies after combat has been resolved.

Hidden or invisible doesn't seem in character. High attack strength, yes. Immunity to first strikes?? How? You can still shoot them down as they charge forwards.
I didn't think censor bearers were quite as suicidal as goblin fanatics, I thought it might be better to save a dies after combat mechanic for just the goblin fanatic. Its a pretty frustrating mechanic in civ since you have to build a unit and march it wherever it is going, paying maintenance costs all the while, all for one combat.
High attack/lower defense is fine.
They alreadfy get poison resistance from the Skaven racial promotion, maybe 50% death resistance to signify resistance to disease and plagues?

assasins. an unit-ability to first strike or a +50% vs heroes? Or a seperate hidden unit that can perform assasination spy actions versus fortified units and cities?

I think the Marksmen ability works fine for assassins. I understand that the skaven assassin could arguably be repurposed as an anti-hero unit, but I don't know how well that will work in stack combat. Besides, the markmen ability of targetting the weakest unit in the stack (including killing off warmachine crew) feels very Skaveny in nature.
The idea of this assassin unit is also that is is weaker, but available much earlier in the game than assassins that other races get.
I like a combat unit much better than an espionage one. In general I hate how espionage is implemented in civ in general, and in this mod.

I see that steampower is ruled out.
I had assumed the doomwheel was the steam-tank equivalent... it however runs on warplightning and rats ... obviously.

What is a doomwheel? I'd be fine with giving them steampower if there was a unit that fit the role.

partizan unit: rat swarm?

I don't understand what you mean by "partizan". Unless you mean like partisans from civ2 generated when a city dies? Seems like an annoying new mechanic.
The Giant Rat (troll replacement) was designed to be the rat swarm; immortality seems to suit; throw the rat swarm at an enemy unit to weaken it a little, it dies and reappears in your capital. Rinse and repeat.
Each rat isn't immortal, but the swarm as a whole is.

Free slaves.
(I read the burrows text wrongly, at first thought it gave a free unit every unit built)
maybe can be conscripted by warlords from warren cities, halving their population and adding a big stack of upkeep-free slave units. who do not add to war-weariness

The warrens/burrows *does* give a free unit every time you build a Clanrat or Stormvermin or nightrunner. This is how the skaven faction can field a huge army of weak units, even with only 2-5 cities.
I'm not sure how to implement slaves interestingly for Skaven. Probably just have them like using the slavery civic.

black skaven: axemen elite melee troops. (Less armoured then stormvermin.)
kinda like black orcs.
stormvermin could be an upgrade possibility of blackskaven at level 5 or so, maybe even national unit (max10).

I'd never heard of black skaven.
I guess we could use black skaven as a tier2 melee unit, and move stormvermin to a pikeman replacement.
So:
Clanrat, strength 4/3, +25% vs melee.
Clanrat spearmen, strength 3/4, +50% vs shock cavalry, +25% vs chariot.
Black Skaven, strength 5/4, +25% vs melee.
Black Skaven spearmen, strength 4/5, +25% vs shock cavalry. (Deliberately weaker than normal spearmen)
Stormvermin, strength 6/5, +25% vs melee, +25% vs shock cavalry, +10% vs chariot. National limit 10.

And have both clanrats, and both black skaven (but not Stormvermin), duplicated by the Skaven Burrows building.

Don't understand the pestilens unit(s)...are you suggesting only a special priest-type unit?
Half the skaven armies are made up of plaguemonks in the 'current time' warhammer world remember. There really should be a deseased, but tough plaguemonk unit available only at pestilensHQ in lieu of clanrat units.

Really? I thought that the hordes of skaven were clanrats, not plaguemonks.
I think that a single plaguemonk priest unit (and censor bearers) works fine; particularly given how disease is implemented in this mod (the FFH system).
Having a national wonder REMOVE the ability to produce some units would be hard to code, and would potentially mess up the AI.

Given that we have a single skaven civ to represent the flavor of all of the skaven clans, I think a generic core and a single UU for each HQ provides a good compromise of balance and flavor - particularly given that you might not be able to build all 4 hqs in a given game.

I don't mind there being a Wonder that can only be built in the capital and is required for the various adept units. This works fine for Wood Elves and High Elves.

Maybe Jezzails could get +1 poison and extra firststrike chance with less base strength to represent the strong 1st volley with terrible reload.

This sounds possible. So, the jezzails are handgunners with -2 base strength, +1 poison strength, +1 first strike. I like it.

Perhaps an experimentation event where the effects aren't apparent for a good ~40 turns or so.. defintely infuriating, possibly fun?

Not fun I think. Divorcing cause from effect, or having penalties where you can't identify their effect, is just frustrating for the player. In the extreme case: MOO3, where you couldn't tell the effects of almost any decision you took.

What are yalls ideas re the Warpstone resource? Skaven are meant to be constantly searching for more but with the Civ4 system once they get access to one source they're pretty much set

I think this could be adequately driven by giving their heroes and maybe their archmage, and maybe the engineer, warpstone affinity. So they increase strength with more warpstone resources.
That way the faction is weak with no warpstone, good with 1 warpstone, and gets a little bit stonger with each extra, but doesn't get imba if you happen to get access to lots.
Plus, the AI (which won't understand the value of extra warpstone) won't get screwed by having only 1.

IIRC all resources dry up eventually, the frequency is somewhere in the XML.
So I suggest a very high rate of warpstone use-uppage, with the event

Bad idea I think, this would tend to just screw the AI.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Remember that the AI might not build all the HQs - and on smaller maps, you *can't* build all the hqs because you can't get 4 cities.

see my above post for forcing all skaven 'true cities' to have a clan HQ.

The rattlinggun seemed unnecessary - its role is basically that of the warplightning cannon and the jezzails. So I left it out.

More an oversized musket than a minature cannon - I think they fit fine in the handgunner slot (remember that only a few factions get anything in this slot, most can't research rifling).

seriously, i dont want to leave out any cannonical units, we can find a usefull slot for all the skaven seige (and Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves for that matter), and if we run out of seige slots... well, make more

Really? These seem to be a separate unit in the Skaven things I've seen, including the latest catalogs.

same...

What is a doomwheel? I'd be fine with giving them steampower if there was a unit that fit the role.

the most insane seige engine you will ever encounter... AH you can tell him

The Giant Rat (troll replacement) was designed to be the rat swarm; immortality seems to suit; throw the rat swarm at an enemy unit to weaken it a little, it dies and reappears in your capital. Rinse and repeat.
Each rat isn't immortal, but the swarm as a whole is.

Awsome idea. might make a new promo with a diff name to keep flavourful though...

And have both clanrats, and both black skaven (but not Stormvermin), duplicated by the Skaven Burrows building.

all skaven units should duplicate but national limits still cap at the same number.

I think this could be adequately driven by giving their heroes and maybe their archmage, and maybe the engineer, warpstone affinity. So they increase strength with more warpstone resources.
That way the faction is weak with no warpstone, good with 1 warpstone, and gets a little bit stonger with each extra, but doesn't get imba if you happen to get access to lots.
Plus, the AI (which won't understand the value of extra warpstone) won't get screwed by having only 1.

additional UBs which boost the happiness from warpstone (and remove the unhealthyness) and % gold per source would be a good way to incite warpstone searches. Skaven should get a mine upgrade "Warpstone Shaft" which has a higher than normal chance of discovering warpstone every turn (and an extra hammer).

perhaps a skaven spell which can be cast on a warpstone source removing it (worker only? requires a lot of turns?), to turn it into an item such as 'Refined Warpstone' can be moved to a true city and sacrificed to build a 'Warpstone Refinary', which brings back the concept of 'Power' ala nuclear power plants in Vanilla civ granting additional hammers and unit mutation rates.

etc etc.

Bad idea I think, this would tend to just screw the AI.

i agree

 

[Ahriman]

all skaven units should duplicate but national limits still cap at the same number.

I think this will be too much, along with all the hammer bonuses from warpstone reactors and refineries.
The point of the mechanic is to create huge swarms of core units, not help them field tons of specialists. We want huge mobs of weak clanrates, not tons of elite units everywhere.

Skaven should get a mine upgrade "Warpstone Shaft" which has a higher than normal chance of discovering warpstone every turn (and an extra hammer).

I think the extra hammer would be too much (on top of the bonus for skaven cottages). But I wouldn't mind skaven mines having a slightly higher warpstone discovery rate (maybe double?).
I also think its better to have some of these bonuses come from unique Skaven techs, rather than from different improvements. So if you really wanted +1hammers, just give them +1 hammers from mines from a tech, rather than creating a new improvement that does the same thing as a mine. This way, enemies who capture Skaven cities (or who culturally conquer Skaven territory) don't somehow get superior improvements.

Don't know if its possible for a tech to increase the spawn rate, but if so that would be good.

perhaps a skaven spell which can be cast on a warpstone source removing it (worker only? requires a lot of turns?), to turn it into an item such as 'Refined Warpstone' can be moved to a true city and sacrificed to build a 'Warpstone Refinary', which brings back the concept of 'Power' ala nuclear power plants in Vanilla civ granting additional hammers and unit mutation rates.

It would be hard to get the AI to understand something which required bringing a resource back to a city.
Better just to stick to constructable buildings. Check the first post in this thread. The Warpstone reactor gives +25% hammers, and +25% hammers with warpstone. Which is plenty I think.
Maybe the Warpstone Refinery could give +1 happy, +1 health per connected warpstone resource.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

The point of the mechanic is to create huge swarms of core units, not help them field tons of specialists. We want huge mobs of weak clanrates, not tons of elite units everywhere.

it wont make tonnes of rare units because the caps are the same. still only 10 pikemen equivilents. the warren just means they can build to the cap faster. the core units like basic warriors would have no cap though. so in theory massive armies or cannon fodder.

I think the extra hammer would be too much (on top of the bonus for skaven cottages). But I wouldn't mind skaven mines having a slightly higher warpstone discovery rate (maybe double?).
I also think its better to have some of these bonuses come from unique Skaven techs, rather than from different improvements. So if you really wanted +1hammers, just give them +1 hammers from mines from a tech, rather than creating a new improvement that does the same thing as a mine. This way, enemies who capture Skaven cities (or who culturally conquer Skaven territory) don't somehow get superior improvements.

Don't know if its possible for a tech to increase the spawn rate, but if so that would be good.

true that.

It would be hard to get the AI to understand something which required bringing a resource back to a city.

thats also true, though i still want Warpstone refinary to provide power ala Vanilla civ

 

[orlanth]

I kind of like that harvest idea, I think if you gave it UNITAI_CITYDEFENSE it would automatically move back to the city and autocreate its building like that Crown in FfH. Affinity though would also work fine.

 

[Ahriman]

it wont make tonnes of rare units because the caps are the same. still only 10 pikemen equivilents. the warren just means they can build to the cap faster. the core units like basic warriors would have no cap though. so in theory massive armies or cannon fodder.

It takes a very long time to get up to the unit cap; for a long time the unit cap isn't a binding constraint, and for the AI (which is constantly losing its national units, since they are the stronger ones that attack first/defend stacks) the cap is often not binding at all during wartime (when it loses many troops, and is constnatly replacing them).
Also, when there are so many different units with national unit caps, you could be building specialist units all day (at double production) and still never have to build the core units.

The point of the mechanic is to shift production away from the specialists towards the bulk/mass units. You want it to sometimes be worth building the core/fodder units rather than just building the elite one. If the warrens doubles only core units, you get this effect. If the warrens doubles all units, there is no such relative change.

Also, the core units that get double production are deliberately slightly weaker than those of other factions. Whereas the specialist units mostly aren't.

Finally, I worry that if the warrens can double even powerful non-core units, the Skaven army will simply be too strong relative to other factions.

thats also true, though i still want Warpstone refinary to provide power ala Vanilla civ

What is the differential effect between a building getting +25% with power and power coming from warpstone, and getting +25% bonus from warpstone? None.
Unless you want to create separate buildings; both a factory and a powerplant. I don't really see any need for this.
The power mechanic is slightly different in vanilla because there are many different power plants you can build. Not so here, so I don't see the point of getting a separate power plant.

 

[Ahriman]

I kind of like that harvest idea, I think if you gave it UNITAI_CITYDEFENSE it would automatically move back to the city and autocreate its building like that Crown in FfH. Affinity though would also work fine.

True, it seems possible. But it still seems like needless micromanagement busywork. When there is warpstone on a tile and my citizens are working it, they are carving up warpstone and carrying it back to my city. But I don't have to micromanage them doing it.

The only point in having something spawn and have to be carried back home is if it spawns a long distance from where it needs to go, and so is vulnerable on the way (like treasure chests in Colonisation or alien artifacts in SMAC). If it spawns in friendly territory, then having to carry it home is just an extra few mouseclicks to no strategic purpose.

when a clan is chosen an automatic wonder is built in that city ie 'Skyre HQ', each HQ would have different unit bonuses and attributes (NOTE: NOT unit requirements, just boosts)

I prefer the National Wonder route. If the HQs give any kind of bonus research or culture or whatever, we definitely don't want them available for free to newly founded cities. That would be too strong in the early game. Its better to make the player have to spend some time and hammers investing in their construction. If we make them fairly cheap, the AI WILL build them, but not until the city has developed some. The AI is pretty good at building wonders.
I do also like the idea of an HQ unit requirement for the speciality units of each clan.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

The point of the mechanic is to shift production away from the specialists towards the bulk/mass units. You want it to sometimes be worth building the core/fodder units rather than just building the elite one. If the warrens doubles only core units, you get this effect. If the warrens doubles all units, there is no such relative change.

maybe so but i think the warrens mechanic as it stands duplicated national units anyway. simply raise the cost of skaven national units to accomodate the fact they get 2 of them. its a coding thing.

What is the differential effect between a building getting +25% with power and power coming from warpstone, and getting +25% bonus from warpstone? None.
Unless you want to create separate buildings; both a factory and a powerplant. I don't really see any need for this.
The power mechanic is slightly different in vanilla because there are many different power plants you can build. Not so here, so I don't see the point of getting a separate power plant.

meh whatever. i still like the idea.

True, it seems possible. But it still seems like needless micromanagement busywork. When there is warpstone on a tile and my citizens are working it, they are carving up warpstone and carrying it back to my city. But I don't have to micromanage them doing it.

The only point in having something spawn and have to be carried back home is if it spawns a long distance from where it needs to go, and so is vulnerable on the way (like treasure chests in Colonisation or alien artifacts in SMAC). If it spawns in friendly territory, then having to carry it home is just an extra few mouseclicks to no strategic purpose.

not so. it removes the warpstone resource. so you EITHER get production bonus from it, OR and affinity bonus alowing for different effects from warpstone depending on what the player wants to do with it. this also encourages the skaven to hunt for more warpstone which is what they SHOULD do.

I prefer the National Wonder route. If the HQs give any kind of bonus research or culture or whatever, we definitely don't want them available for free to newly founded cities. That would be too strong in the early game. Its better to make the player have to spend some time and hammers investing in their construction. If we make them fairly cheap, the AI WILL build them, but not until the city has developed some. The AI is pretty good at building wonders.
I do also like the idea of an HQ unit requirement for the speciality units of each clan.

the automatic way could simply be as a 'labling' thing, which automatically builds a placeholder building with minor benefits (or no benefits other than unlocking the production of upgrades to that HQ) ie 'Skyre HQ' which can progressivly be upgraded to gain extra benefits over time.