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Faith as a Measure of Intellect

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by CheScott, Aug 2, 2008.

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Which faiths, if any, do you believe have no rational legs to stand on?

  1. None, faith and intelligence are unrelated.

    59 vote(s)
    53.2%
  2. Some faiths are, in my view, totally stupid. (Choose as many as you like)

    48 vote(s)
    43.2%
  3. Judiasm

    30 vote(s)
    27.0%
  4. Islam

    36 vote(s)
    32.4%
  5. Scientology

    60 vote(s)
    54.1%
  6. Mormonism

    41 vote(s)
    36.9%
  7. Christianity

    29 vote(s)
    26.1%
  8. Catholocism

    33 vote(s)
    29.7%
  9. Any religion other than my own is logical fallacy.

    7 vote(s)
    6.3%
  10. Any sect other than my own is logical fallacy.

    8 vote(s)
    7.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. CheScott

    CheScott Prince

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    This question came up with a group of my friends during the Republican primaries. We were discussing the candidates and I mentioned that, as the Republican go, I preferred Ron Paul but I only had serious reservations about Mitt Romney, because he is a Mormon.

    My friend was a bit surprised at me, since to make judgments based upon the religious convictions of someone is generally frowned on in liberal thought. (Conservatives wishing to contest this, please save both of us the time and assume my response is, 'blow me, arguing with militant atheists on the internet doesn't make you an expert on liberalism'.) And I was told that it's wrong to judge someone based purely on their brand of faith.

    In general I agree with this, however I do believe there is a point where it's perfectly fair to assume that a faith requires one to be so divorced from rational thought, that they are clearly intellectually compromised.

    This is my opinion of only Mormonism, Scientology and various cults. I believe that it is *possible* to have a belief in the other major religions, without being divorced from rational thought.

    The only thing I knew about Mitt Romney, and the only thing I needed to know about him, was that he was a Mormon. Now, clearly most of us are willing to draw such a line at some point. Assuming he was alive, I don't think 'David Koresh '08' would have gained much traction, outside of his worshipers.

    So, is it ever fair to draw a conclusion about someone's intellect based on their faith? Which faiths do you consider intellectually compromised?

    *EDIT* AAHHH!!!! I'm so sorry, I totally forgot to include Atheism/Agnosticism. I knew there were supposed to be 11 Options! Sorry to all the Atheist/Agnostic Haters. =O
     
  2. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    Absolutely nothing to do. Even the most intelligent person can fall in a scam like Scientology and other cults.
     
  3. LightFang

    LightFang "I'm the hero!"

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    Faith and intelligence are unrelated. Smart people fall into dumb traps all the time.
     
  4. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

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    Yep. Shame on you LF! :mischief:
     
  5. History_Buff

    History_Buff Knight of Cydonia

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    All religions are silly. However, that does not stop intelligent people from falling into every camp on the planet.
     
  6. CheScott

    CheScott Prince

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    By what measure can someone be fairly seen as unintelligent, if not by that which they define themselves?

    If an intelligent person cuts off their foot, because they believe it is God's will, are they still intelligent?
     
  7. Fronx

    Fronx Warlord

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    Yes. In my opinion. Intelligent people can be misguided. (ie. Nazi-germany intelligents (some knew what was going on, but most didn't)).
     
  8. LightFang

    LightFang "I'm the hero!"

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    I'm sorry.
     
  9. Shadylookin

    Shadylookin master debater

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    I probably wouldn't vote for a religious person outside of mainstream Christianity.

    The reason being is probably hard to express, but i'll give it a shot.

    In the US most people will default to some type of Christianity. I believe that most "christians" in the US are merely christian because their parents said they were and never really bothered to question it. I mean I know plenty of "christians" who have never read the bible or attended a sunday service.

    However to be any other religion in the US means you're going against the grain. You're surrounded by "cultural christianity" yet you make a conscious decision to stay with your religious beliefs.

    For instance a Jehovah's Witness should be surrounded by enough conflicting opinion that he would question his belief so he has made an explicit decision to continue following his crazy beliefs. Whereas a mainstream christian will rarely see conflicting opinion(unless he goes out in search of it) therefore he might not make an explicit decision to be a christian.

    Hopefully some of that made some sense.
     
  10. CheScott

    CheScott Prince

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    Doesn't a Jehovah's Witness qualify as 'some type of Christianity'.
     
  11. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    Is Catholicism not Christianity?

    Mormonism too...
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, religious faith intensity(e.g., ritualism) correlates inversely with IQ or g, which are measures of some types of intelligence. There might be a selection bias there, though, since IQ might measure things which predispose people against ritualism.

    Of course, it's a bit like the male/female intelligence division, there such a strong overlap that it really doesn't matter.

    Your faith makes you less intelligent once your faith causes you to do something/believe something which is obviously not intelligent. And discriminating your leaders based on faith makes a bit of sense, because you don't want someone with power to not understand the way the world works.

    There's no correlation between 'good works' and intelligence tests, though. Religious ritualism and religious charity aren't the same thing at all.
     
  13. Nylan

    Nylan Characters Welcome

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    Considering the large numbers of highly intelligent Mormons and vast amounts of idiotic atheists (for example), I'd say there's far too much of an overlap for this to be a viable argument.

    Refusing to consider someone for president simply on the basis of their religion is purely foolish prejudice. There are amazingly good people of every belief system, and there are bad people of every belief system as well. You have to assess a person on their own merits, rather than just stereotype them or shove them in an umbrella category and move on.

    Also, what exactly do you define as a cult? I hope it has no correlation to the number of members.

    Regards :)
     
  14. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I think a candidate's religious views are a good reason to give a second-look at some of their policies. If their faith says "the existence of Israel is necessary for the Rapture", then you should look at the candidate to see if their policies seem to be biased due to that. If their faith says "the Earth is 6000 years old", then you'll want to see evidence that their faith caused policy mishaps in that area.
     
  15. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Faith doesn't have any correlation to intellect. But that doesn't mean that any faiths are rational.
     
  16. Ayatollah So

    Ayatollah So the spoof'll set you free

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    :goodjob: I was pleasantly surprised to find the first 3 responses to the OP making the same point I wanted to make. Intelligent people fall into all kinds of mistakes especially when they are highly motivated to do so. Religion is about the most emotionally charged subject there is. Q.E. frickin' D.

    Oh yeah: and my "religion" (in the broad sense in which unbelievers can have "religious" views protected by the 1st Amendment) is probably wrong too. I just haven't found the big glaring mistake in my own thinking yet.
     
  17. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    The highly intelligent mormons are the mormons who are democrats, so your point is nil.
     
  18. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Where is the "anyone who doesn't at least realize the existence of some sort of higher being has a serious flaw as far as their grasp on reality goes" option? The poll seems a bit one-sided.

    EDIT: Where is that darned thread about voting for an atheist? I cannot seem to find it and I need to post a change in view.
     
  19. downtown

    downtown Crafternoon Delight

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    There are far too many Mormons who are very competently serving in the military, civil service, halls of Congress, etc. for the "Mormons are too stupid for political service" argument to have a whole lot of merit for me.
     
  20. Leonel

    Leonel Breakfast Connoisseur

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    Now now atheist's can be reasonable and intelligent too!

    It's the militant atheists that hijack the viewpoint for their own hatred and agenda.
     

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