1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Faith Schools

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Truronian, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Truronian

    Truronian Quite unfamiliar Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,857
    Location:
    Near Cornwall
    Did anyone catch the Richard Dawkins documentary on More4 last night about faith schools? It was a very good and very worrying hour.

    For those of you outside the UK, some background. In the UK about a third of public schools are so called "faith schools". They receive funding from the government and get to include an unregulated faith element in the syllabus... Muslim schools teach about Islam, Jewish schools about Judaism etc. They also get to set faith based criteria for parents who want there children to go to the school.

    What does OT think of these? There are a few questions at work here:

    1) Should they be publicly funded?
    2) Should they be regulated by the government?
    3) Should they have to follow the national syllabus?
    4) Should thy be allowed to focus R.E. solely on one religion?
    5) Is it moral to be teaching religion as truth to children?
     
  2. madviking

    madviking north american scum

    Joined:
    May 22, 2005
    Messages:
    11,337
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    flavortown
    Foreword, this is (obviously) an American POV.

    1 - No, and they can't.
    2 - No, see above.
    3 - No, as they are not public, they are allowed to have their own curricula.
    4 - If their parents feel that way, then religious schools should be able to.
    5 - To me, no, but it cannot be simplified to that for all religious schools.
     
  3. Haseri

    Haseri Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,149
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Yes, I too found it worrying. My V+ box didn't record the last few minutes, so I don't know exactly how it ended.

    I pretty much agree with Dawkins on this. The examples from NI were very discomforting: that there is another generation segregated from others.

    I would also worry about what the children at that Windmill Primary said about why things are the way they are. But my Media Studies mindset kicked in and that is probably a constructed piece: I expect (and hope) many children chose the other options, and those were only ones included for time and to get the point across.

    My favourite part was when he asked the muslim girl what they were taught in science on the subject, that she wanted to know his opinion on the matter of evolution, and he answered "Well, I'll tell you the answer..."
     
  4. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    5,685
    1 hell no(and here in Norway they are)
    2 Yes
    3 I suppose they can add all kind of garbage(read religion), as long as they include the national syllabus
    4 that's the point with them, isn't it?
    5 I don't think so
     
  5. Quackers

    Quackers The Frog

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,282
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Let'em do it.
    Just monitor the Islam faith schools for Islamists and violent nutters.
     
  6. Truronian

    Truronian Quite unfamiliar Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,857
    Location:
    Near Cornwall
    The science teacher not being able to answer one of the most common questions about evolution made me sad. :sad:

    I mean the subject of R.E. here, rather than the ethos of the school. For example, the school I went to was Methodist. We had Methodist assemblies and church services and R.E. had a heavy Christianity focus. I'm addressing the latter element here, the R.E. lessons themselves.
     
  7. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    5,685
    In that case, yes, depending on the national curriculum. I'm not saying the national curriculum should dictate everything, I'm just saying it should represent the absolute minimum of what has to be taught.
     
  8. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Messages:
    15,673
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I agree with everything this chap here sez.
     
  9. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,150
    Location:
    England
    No, yes, yes, no, no.

    We ought to positively ban faith schools because they embed tosh in the minds of students and fail to teach solid fact from a neutral perspective. In my opinion, we ought to be rid of private schools, single-sex schools, and grammar schools too, because they (and for that matter faith schools) take teaching talent away from the normal Comprehensives. Taking away all these irregular schools would solve all sorts of social and curricular issues, and, in my opinion, would be a commendable step towards fair and good education for all.
     
  10. iHawX

    iHawX Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    6
    1) Should they be publicly funded? - No
    2) Should they be regulated by the government? - No
    3) Should they have to follow the national syllabus? - Yes
    4) Should thy be allowed to focus R.E. solely on one religion? - Yes
    5) Is it moral to be teaching religion as truth to children? - I think, that it isn't moral, to teach religion as truth to anyone.
     
  11. Neonanocyborgasm

    Neonanocyborgasm Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    4,695
    Gender:
    Male
    Strictly speaking, it is not contrary to British law, as I understand it, to fund faith based schools. While the UK respects all religions, there is no separation of church and state, as the Church of England is funded by the state. If they can fund one religion, they can fund others.

    I myself am opposed to indoctrinating the youth with ancient mythology, but at least in the UK, I'd have no legal basis. In the US, we do have a separation of church and state, embedded into the Constitution. It is illegal for the state to favor any religion, which has often meant a court decision whereby all religions have to be equally favored.
     
  12. Aramazd

    Aramazd Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,786
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    No.
    yes
    yes
    well that's the point, so yes.
    No.
     
  13. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,436
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Nah.

    Well they have to teach kids actual education and just made up conspiracy theories like intelligent design.

    Depends on what the national syllabus is.

    No.

    Absolutely not.
     
  14. really

    really Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,938
    Location:
    Éire
    I'll watch it now - I was out last night and forgot to record it.

    Something like 98% of all primary schools in the republic of Ireland have a religious ethos - I think we need a good dose of secularism.

    If schools have more applicants than spaces they can discriminate on religious grounds - some parents baptize their children to avoid this.

    It has also led to the ghettoizing of some schools where all children of non catholic parents end up in one school - those parents tending to be immigrants.

    Edit: the report and numbers came from the department of education where they are trying to work with the Catholic church to break their monopoly in certain areas.
     
  15. Moonbat

    Moonbat Nazi

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Moonland
    Moonland is way backwards. I was taught that god exists, god guides evolution, we prayed everyday, we sang and learned religious hymns, we studied the biblical stories quite a bit and all kind of religious rubbish. Just horrible. It's funny tho, I prayed once on my own before going to bed when I was 11 and that experience was enough to make me an atheist. I never really got what it was about religion despite all that religious brainwashing. I just couldn't understand it like other kids did. Moonland could use some secularisation. Such a turd of a country. And they rank this country's educational system one of the best in the world, hahaha. :D
     
  16. dwaxe

    dwaxe is not a fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,506
    Location:
    The Internet
    Just goes to show how easily ignorance is passed down through generations. The schools that Dawkins showed are fertile grounds for indoctrination.

    This is one issue on which I admire the status quo of the United States--no public funding and virtually no regulation of private religious schools.

    There are rare incidences in which public schools are corrupted by well-meaning zealots, but, luckily, they are few and far between.
     
  17. useless

    useless Social Justice Rogue

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2003
    Messages:
    10,378
    Location:
    On the internet
    Why specifically Islam?
     
  18. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    13,125
    Location:
    Misery
    ITT: people I agree with
     
  19. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,511
    Location:
    Osaka
    tl;dr? Richard Dawkins finds he doesn't like religious education. Surprised, well no?

    Well at least someone has a thinking cap on.
     
  20. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    32,005
    Location:
    Scotland
    It's worth noting that a large number of these are Catholic schools, which are traditionally partially funded by the Roman Catholic Church and generally stick to the usual curriculum outside of the areas of religious and social education. They're even tighter in Scotland, as they are fully publicly funded- a peculiarity which results from the Scottish education system being originally parochial- so they aren't allowed to stray one inch from the syllabus outside of religious and social education, and have less ability to discriminate as to attendance (we had a small number of Protestants, Muslims and Sikhs in attendance, for example, each for their own reasons).

    Anyway, I'm sort of torn. I don't think a Catholic education did me any good, but I don't think it did me much harm, either, so I tend to think that they should either be fully private, or, as in Scotland, publicly funded but tightly controlled. I'm not sure that the latter is an absolute right, but it seems a decent enough compromise for those who wish to give their kids a vaguely religious education but who cannot afford private schools (or are not so hardcore about their faith as to be interested anyway).

    Because it is no longer socially acceptable to openly discriminate against Catholics and Jews.
     

Share This Page