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Fall from Heaven 2 Expansion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Luckmann, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this accomplished (effectively) in the pristinus pass scenario. Just make a block say 12 tiles wide that is impassible for everything, and add your second map and add appropriate teleports. For a cylindrical world wrap, you could increase the vertical dimension and create your second map after the poles.
    x=ice cap/poles/boundary, r=regular world, o=overlay map (second world), make the boundary impassable for flying units, no issues with a cylindrical world wrap generated. What exactly is the problem with that approach? It worked alright in the Pristinus Pass scenario, the barbs even had cities in the pass which seems to show that the concept can and does work.
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  2. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Deity

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    Well, for one, how many ai units took advantage of the portal? Even if you could make the ai use the portal, the trouble is having it conceptualize the idea that it is a waypoint between the two.
    There were other concerns when this was brought up before that I don't recall off hand.
     
  3. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    Yes, I was thinking the only way on the civ IV engine would be a large impassible barrier with teleports as the MoM towers.

    As long as nothing could pass through or fly over the impassible terrain, it could work. I would assume pathfinding could be coded much like the pathfinding an AI uses when determining naval invasions, except the towers would have an unlimited cargo capacity.

    Still, it wouldn't be as cool as having two, separate, randomly generated maps. :( It would be the ultimate to have a dungeon level in a dark fantasy setting like this.
     
  4. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    Well, after the AI finished settling/conquering its immediate area, it could be told to send a certain percentage of troops+some settlers workers through portals in its territory. If the AI can be coded to really, really want acheron dead, I think it can be coded to go through and settle across a portal. Granted it would take some AI work, but if the team taught the AI to use fireballs reliably (which it has), to go after acheron (which it does), I think going through portals and conquering/settling wouldn't be too hard, especially given that the AI's literally get hundreds and hundreds of units in the latter half of the game, spare one platoon of 50-100 champions + few settlers&workers for a portal. Just my 2 cents, I could be totally wrong, but given what has already been accomplished, and given my understanding of Python and how the AI works, it is probably possible to work something out. If the team does not want to do this, that's very understandable and they'll get no complaints from me because they've already made a superb mod :D. Whether this feature will bring something valuable to the mod is also worth discussing, but if this is a change that kael wants, it probably is doable though it would be a lot of work. Personally , I'd love it if this kind of feature was introduced, but I'm not going to be the one making it(way to busy atm to make modmods), so it really isn't my decision(if/when I have the time, I'll certainly try my hand at it).
     
  5. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Deity

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    I think you're underestimating the difference between "Use Fireball spell if you have it , then attack with the fireball" and "If you want to attack a city to the North, in that inaccesible section, move to one specific tile."
    All I know is that Kael really wanted a sepeerate hell map, but ultimately decided on the current impementation.
     
  6. PanzerWolf

    PanzerWolf Chieftain

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    We need the code from Test of Time implemented. I just loved the parallell worlds you had there :)
     
  7. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    Xienwolf is working on the FF AI, by the way. It's one of his top priorities at the moment.

    I disagree over the ice mana though. I never thought it made sense to have a mana type only available to one civ, and I'm glad for that change.

    Also, tolerant never fitted the elohim at all. As has been pointed out a few times, it favors an aggressive style of play, and makes the player feel compelled to act out of character to get the most out of their civ.

    Like the mercurians murdering good people, there can be a lorewise justification for it. But from a game mechanic standpoint, it rewards a style of play counterproductive to that civ's theme, and I feel it's more suitable on a militaristic leader like Decius.

    The elohim got a ton of other new stuff, so it's hardly like they've been short changed. I know they can at least get Spiritual and Industriious from various features, which are pretty good traits.
     
  8. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    If you look at the lore behind tolerant (see: blank banner story, elohim not butchering/converting conquered populaces as much, and Sirona being related to tolerance), it fits them lore wise quite effectively. In practical terms, you're going to get involved in wars one way or another in FFH, and those wars will only end when you take a few cities anyway. The difference is, when the Elohim take a few cities, they try to enlighten the populace rather than forcing them into assimilation, and in that process the non-assimilated population keeps their previous abilities. Game play wise, it makes no sense to have one of the most powerful traits added to the repertoire of a civ that is already extremely powerful (Decius of Calabim). Lore wise, being tolerant of indigenous cultures fits the elohim. In terms of game play, it is not overpowering on the elohim. The same can't be said for Decius (imo). Also, Ice mana is one of the most powerful mana types in the game atm, and it is available to everyone (potentially) via letum frigus, but it is rare. If everyone can get snowfall, who cares whether or not the Illians get high priests or archmages? But these are just my opinions on FF, and I'll still play FF because it adds a ton of other features that are very worthwhile, once the AI is brought up to speed.
     
  9. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    The change in Fall Further was done before KillerClowns (pretty sure I remember the lore-meister responsible, but could be horribly mistaken) wrote the story which finally provided justification to most of the community. In fact, the change was made a couple of days before the update was released which gave Elohim Tolerant in the first place, since we already knew about Assimilation and had seen in the changelog that it was granted to Elohim. There was such an uproar in the community about how it was a militaristic trait since culture flipping is so hard to accomplish, and we mostly agreed. About a week later the blank banner story came out and we had to admit that it did seem decent for the Elohim, but by then we had already developed a new mechanic for them.

    And for Lore, Decius, the man who has sat on many thrones, is quite perfect for the trait. In his hands it is NOT tolerant, it is being smart enough to make use of all the tools handed to you, instead of trying to force your own ways/traditions on the new populations.

    Don't remember what the Ice spells are, but they aren't the same in FF as they are in FfH, so I would doubt it remains the most powerful sphere over there. But if you actually play the mod you'd know better than I do ;) If it isn't in the DLL, I'm not likely to remember it properly.
     
  10. kenken244

    kenken244 Grammar Nazi

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    I think in FF the Illians have unique ice spells while everyone else has somewhat weaker spells.
     
  11. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    There's a second tier of Ice spells that come out when you have Divine on the same unit - so the Priests of Winter, with the Divine trait, can cast spells other mages don't.

    Snowfall's still limited to divine units with Ice III in FF- so essentially, Priests of Winter.
     
  12. someone67

    someone67 Warlord

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    And all priest Govannon teached ice-spells.
     
  13. notque

    notque Artificially Intelligent

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    If you are concerned about AI, I'd give the minor leaders mod a try. It's improved. Hopefully Xienwolf keeps working on it, and I keep working on it, and it improves twice as fast.
     

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